Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby All-MVC Fan » March 20th, 2017, 2:49 pm

TheAsianSensation wrote:None of the options are great. I'm assuming Dayton and St Louis are out of play.

Category: basketball product:
Valparaiso, Belmont
If you're concerned solely about basketball product, these are probably the best 2 bets.

Category: expanding the conference footprint:
UALR, UT-Arlington, Belmont, Oakland or Detroit, Wright St, Milwaukee/Green Bay, the XDSUs, UMKC, Denver
A mix of schools who are capable of competing in the Valley, and a few that probably aren't. Some only slightly stretch the geography; Denver and UTA are probably too far.

Category: up-and-comers to take a risk on:
Omaha, Northern Kentucky, Oakland?, XDSUs?
Programs relatively new to D-1 and perhaps have room to grow. NKU seems to make sense on the surface

Category: markets markets markets:
UIC, Detroit or Oakland?, Cleveland St, IUPUI, UMKC, Omaha?
Mostly fodder, IMO

Category: nope:
Oral Bob
No.

Category: suck it up and eat the travel costs for the good of the conference you stupid cheap schools:
New Mexico St


Conclusion:
We can take one of 3 paths:
1) Add the best basketball programs, preserving conference strength above everything else
2) Add good markets for TV purposes regardless of the strength of the individual programs
3) Try to middle it between #1 and #2

I don't have a good feel on the direction. I want to add the XDSUs, but that takes us to 11 and commits us to 12. I'd rather stay at 10. Plus if you add them, you have 5 western teams and 6 eastern teams, and now you're pigeonholed into UMKC or Omaha as a 12th. Maybe Little Rock makes sense in this spot.

Does NKU/Valpo/Wright St work? NKU is a wildcard and the schools seem to be on the small side.

Belmont? They might not be interested still. Oakland?

...I don't like it, but I commit to the XDSUs and Little Rock (if you want to argue Omaha in this spot I'm fine). The XDSUs have shown enough competency and consistency to make me trust them over most. Plan B would be Belmont alone. Plan C would be Valpo alone. Plan D would be Valpo/NKU/Oakland or Wright St.

There's also the nuclear option to go to 16 with the XDSUs/Omaha/UALR/NKU/Oakland/Valpo. It'd be the poor man's version of the A-10's strategy: have a bunch of schools, try to get as many of them in the RPI 75-150 range every year to keep the strength of the conference propped up.

One thing I know: if we add UIC, we've stopped trying and we should riot on Elgin's front lawn.


As usual with TAS's posts, this is well done. Although I agree that St. Louis and Dayton are probably out of reach, if I were in charge of the MVC, I'd go camp out on their doorsteps and see if I could get them into the MVC and use them to help keep Wichita. That makes the MVC a much better conference, and keeps the footprint relatively the same. It's also a pipe dream, but then again so were my brackets this year.

Figuring Wichita to be gone, I think you gotta look at the XDSU's up north. And then I'd go with Murray State to get to 12. The XDSU's are attractive for all the reasons stated before, and Murray is a consistently good basketball program over a long period of time. Go to 12, break into divisions, and go from there.

And then get the programs in the Valley to start investing to better their programs! Seriously, if they won't do that, no amount of conference tinkering will achieve anything. This isn't rocket science!!!
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Cdizzle » March 20th, 2017, 2:56 pm

All-MVC Fan wrote:
And then get the programs in the Valley to start investing to better their programs! Seriously, if they won't do that, no amount of conference tinkering will achieve anything. This isn't rocket science!!!

This mentality is why the league is in this position in the first place. And why Loyola is in the league. Making league-level moves...and then expecting programs to contribute at some meaningful level. The order should be reversed.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby All-MVC Fan » March 20th, 2017, 3:05 pm

Cdizzle wrote:
All-MVC Fan wrote:
And then get the programs in the Valley to start investing to better their programs! Seriously, if they won't do that, no amount of conference tinkering will achieve anything. This isn't rocket science!!!

This mentality is why the league is in this position in the first place. And why Loyola is in the league. Making league-level moves...and then expecting programs to contribute at some meaningful level. The order should be reversed.


Amen!
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby pafan » March 20th, 2017, 4:49 pm

All-MVC Fan wrote:And then get the programs in the Valley to start investing to better their programs! Seriously, if they won't do that, no amount of conference tinkering will achieve anything. This isn't rocket science!!!


What better incentive can you give than NCAA tournament monies? The #1 reason there isn't at least one more NCAA unit this year is because the MVC itself was horrid and 17-1 wasn't enough for an at-large bid.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby MoValleyFan » March 20th, 2017, 5:43 pm

This is a long term option:
NDSU UND SDSU USD MSU UNI WIU ISU EIU SIU INSU YSU

I'm a believer that mirroring bb and fb is in the best interest of the Valley long term

and my previous post was a Big East Lite

Drake Bradley Valpo Loyola Evansville Belmont Oral Roberts UIC UMKC Omaha

For what it's worth .....
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby isumvc1 » March 20th, 2017, 6:11 pm

SubGod22 wrote:As to what the MVC would do, and not should do...

They'll look at and consider Valpo, UIC, UMKC, Omaha, SIU-E. Maybe the IPwhatevers or Milwaukee.

The big thing that got Loyola in was the market, even though they are mostly irrelevant in said market. If Elgin and company still want to play the market aspect they could double down in Chicago or try to get into the STL or KC markets (SIU-E, UMKC). Milwaukee could play into that as well. Do they add a public to replace a public? If so, there goes Valpo.

The MVC may try to reach out to Belmont again, but will most likely be turned away again. I don't know if they'd consider an ORU or Little Rock to replace WSU as a travel partner for MSU. Though UMKC could be that as well.

What the MVC should do is go to 12 and add 3. At least two of those should be the XDSUs. They have resources and have shown the desire to be good and have done fairly well for the most part. Travel may suck for some but it would make the conference stronger. Though there are some that believe the Dakota's wouldn't come because in their current situation they pretty much dominate the field and host the conference tournament and may not want to give that up.

I'd say the odds are, if there's just one add, it would come down to UMKC and UIC. Not saying that's what they should do, but I could see that being the play that is made.


Sub is completely correct, this is why the dakotas will never be in the MVC, there is no way they're going to give up home court advantage for their league basketball tournament, it just not going to happen, they draw large crowds, it's a money maker, and 99.9% of the time a dakota team wins, the lone exception was the western illinois women winning the women's league tournament title this past year.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby BCPanther » March 20th, 2017, 7:20 pm

It's 3 and a half hours from Fargo to Sioux Falls.

There are several Valley schools closer to StL than that.

They have cash and want to move up in the world, they're the best choice, though SDSU is going to have to put some cash into they're arena or they'd be in a contest with the Knapp Center for worst building in the league.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby musiccitybulldog » March 20th, 2017, 8:58 pm

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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby MidWestMidMajor » March 20th, 2017, 10:37 pm

I don't see the Dakota schools leaving the Summit League:
1.) They OWN that conference; it revolves around them.
2.) They've just got the Univ of North Dakota back ("The band is back together again.")
3.) I'm not sure that the benefits of a move to the MVC substantially outweigh the disadvantages- they really like having the BB tournament in Sioux Falls vs. a trip to St. Louis.

Does UIC gain a lot institutionally by switching from the Horizon? The MVC is the 12th rated conference; Horizon is 18th. That is a step up. Is it enough to justify changing a conference? Will they receive tons more money? If not, they would probably stay put.

I have to believe that UMKC would gladly swap the WAC for the MVC. And their basketball is on the upswing. I think they would take a phone call from Doug Elgin.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Redhawk » March 21st, 2017, 6:34 am

MidWestMidMajor wrote:I don't see the Dakota schools leaving the Summit League:
1.) They OWN that conference; it revolves around them.
2.) They've just got the Univ of North Dakota back ("The band is back together again.")
3.) I'm not sure that the benefits of a move to the MVC substantially outweigh the disadvantages- they really like having the BB tournament in Sioux Falls vs. a trip to St. Louis.

Does UIC gain a lot institutionally by switching from the Horizon? The MVC is the 12th rated conference; Horizon is 18th. That is a step up. Is it enough to justify changing a conference? Will they receive tons more money? If not, they would probably stay put.

I have to believe that UMKC would gladly swap the WAC for the MVC. And their basketball is on the upswing. I think they would take a phone call from Doug Elgin.


1) WSU OWNS the Valley. Why should they move? Uh...to become a higher profile University.
2) And the MVFC just added UND as well...so the Dakotas are ALL IN on the MVFC.
3) There is a whole big world outside of Sioux Falls...and a lot more exposure for their Universities!

UIC would jump at the chance to join the Valley. Way better long term choice than Valpo...but not the best choice right now.

Yes..UMKC would jump at the chance to join...but so would Omaha. Question is does the Valley
add 1 or 3. If 3 these schools are in the discussion.
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