Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby BCPanther » March 20th, 2017, 7:20 pm

It's 3 and a half hours from Fargo to Sioux Falls.

There are several Valley schools closer to StL than that.

They have cash and want to move up in the world, they're the best choice, though SDSU is going to have to put some cash into they're arena or they'd be in a contest with the Knapp Center for worst building in the league.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby musiccitybulldog » March 20th, 2017, 8:58 pm

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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby MidWestMidMajor » March 20th, 2017, 10:37 pm

I don't see the Dakota schools leaving the Summit League:
1.) They OWN that conference; it revolves around them.
2.) They've just got the Univ of North Dakota back ("The band is back together again.")
3.) I'm not sure that the benefits of a move to the MVC substantially outweigh the disadvantages- they really like having the BB tournament in Sioux Falls vs. a trip to St. Louis.

Does UIC gain a lot institutionally by switching from the Horizon? The MVC is the 12th rated conference; Horizon is 18th. That is a step up. Is it enough to justify changing a conference? Will they receive tons more money? If not, they would probably stay put.

I have to believe that UMKC would gladly swap the WAC for the MVC. And their basketball is on the upswing. I think they would take a phone call from Doug Elgin.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Redhawk » March 21st, 2017, 6:34 am

MidWestMidMajor wrote:I don't see the Dakota schools leaving the Summit League:
1.) They OWN that conference; it revolves around them.
2.) They've just got the Univ of North Dakota back ("The band is back together again.")
3.) I'm not sure that the benefits of a move to the MVC substantially outweigh the disadvantages- they really like having the BB tournament in Sioux Falls vs. a trip to St. Louis.

Does UIC gain a lot institutionally by switching from the Horizon? The MVC is the 12th rated conference; Horizon is 18th. That is a step up. Is it enough to justify changing a conference? Will they receive tons more money? If not, they would probably stay put.

I have to believe that UMKC would gladly swap the WAC for the MVC. And their basketball is on the upswing. I think they would take a phone call from Doug Elgin.


1) WSU OWNS the Valley. Why should they move? Uh...to become a higher profile University.
2) And the MVFC just added UND as well...so the Dakotas are ALL IN on the MVFC.
3) There is a whole big world outside of Sioux Falls...and a lot more exposure for their Universities!

UIC would jump at the chance to join the Valley. Way better long term choice than Valpo...but not the best choice right now.

Yes..UMKC would jump at the chance to join...but so would Omaha. Question is does the Valley
add 1 or 3. If 3 these schools are in the discussion.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Dean Wormer » March 21st, 2017, 8:50 am

Redhawk wrote:
MidWestMidMajor wrote:I don't see the Dakota schools leaving the Summit League:
1.) They OWN that conference; it revolves around them.
2.) They've just got the Univ of North Dakota back ("The band is back together again.")
3.) I'm not sure that the benefits of a move to the MVC substantially outweigh the disadvantages- they really like having the BB tournament in Sioux Falls vs. a trip to St. Louis.

Does UIC gain a lot institutionally by switching from the Horizon? The MVC is the 12th rated conference; Horizon is 18th. That is a step up. Is it enough to justify changing a conference? Will they receive tons more money? If not, they would probably stay put.

I have to believe that UMKC would gladly swap the WAC for the MVC. And their basketball is on the upswing. I think they would take a phone call from Doug Elgin.


1) WSU OWNS the Valley. Why should they move? Uh...to become a higher profile University.
2) And the MVFC just added UND as well...so the Dakotas are ALL IN on the MVFC.
3) There is a whole big world outside of Sioux Falls...and a lot more exposure for their Universities!

UIC would jump at the chance to join the Valley. Way better long term choice than Valpo...but not the best choice right now.

Yes..UMKC would jump at the chance to join...but so would Omaha. Question is does the Valley
add 1 or 3. If 3 these schools are in the discussion.


I don't agree with the UIC being a long term better choice than Valpo. Historically, Valpo has been competitive in every league they play in. Better name recognition, and would at least get recognition and media attention in the NW part of Indiana. UIC is farther down the media pecking order in Chicago than Loyola. The problem with the urban hyphens is they are typically behind another program in that market...UW-Milwaukee behind Marquette, Omaha behind Creighton ( we certainly don't want that), etc One urban hyphen that might be appealing is Ft. Wayne. They could own a decent size market, and play in a 10K seat arena. The attendance is still light, but better a conference could improve that, and they did sell out for the Indiana game. I would rather add a completely new market like Ft. Wayne than add an after thought in a larger one.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Redhawk » March 21st, 2017, 9:04 am

Dean Wormer wrote:I don't agree with the UIC being a long term better choice than Valpo.


For the record...I think UIC is way down the list of choices if we add only one school.
There are however only 3 growing and prospering Public Universities in Illinois....
UofI, ISU and UIC.

Not real high on Valpo or the NW Indiana market for that matter.
Valpo would be another Evansville in the Valley. Small university,
small market, small budget, small arena, small, small, small....the Valley needs BIG!
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby tribecalledquest » March 21st, 2017, 9:24 am

Redhawk wrote:
Dean Wormer wrote:I don't agree with the UIC being a long term better choice than Valpo.


For the record...I think UIC is way down the list of choices if we add only one school.
There are however only 3 growing and prospering Public Universities in Illinois....
UofI, ISU and UIC.

Not real high on Valpo or the NW Indiana market for that matter.
Valpo would be another Evansville in the Valley. Small university,
small market, small budget, small arena, small, small, small....the Valley needs BIG!


Unless there is a super compelling reason I think the league would and should stay at 10 teams.

I actually think Northern Kentucky is an interesting option.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby TheAsianSensation » March 21st, 2017, 9:26 am

Likelihood of candidates turning down the MVC:

NDSU/SDSU - it's possible. They did just bring the fourth Dakota back into the fold, and they own the Summit. However, the MVC is a step up in basketball, and if they wanted to be big fish/small pond, why just not stay in D2 to begin with? I think they lean towards yes in that scenario. But it's certainly a debate.

Belmont - being a modest geographical outlier, and running things pretty well in the OVC, I could see it.

Murray St - just because they might not be able to find a home for their football, and the logistics might be too weird.

Also, anyone can turn down using the Air Force Rationale: "We can't compete budget-wise and recruitment-wise with the MVC, so we won't try".

Other than that....everyone's running, not walking, to the MVC, period.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby ACECARD » March 21st, 2017, 9:56 am

Redhawk wrote:
Dean Wormer wrote:I don't agree with the UIC being a long term better choice than Valpo.


For the record...I think UIC is way down the list of choices if we add only one school.
There are however only 3 growing and prospering Public Universities in Illinois....
UofI, ISU and UIC.

Not real high on Valpo or the NW Indiana market for that matter.
Valpo would be another Evansville in the Valley. Small university,
small market, small budget, small arena, small, small, small....the Valley needs BIG!

Just for reference Valpo is twice as big as UE. The town is 1/4th the size of Evansville, and approximately 45 miles from downtown Chicago. I doubt that they would get that much play from Chicago area.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby uniftw » March 21st, 2017, 10:09 am

The issue with the Dakota's is that is kills the Summit.

You can say "Who cares" but the reality is that they are on the edge of losing their autobids right now anyway to how many schools sponsor each sport and the number of sports the conference sponsors to maintain their bids.

If SDSU and NDSU leave The Summit collapses. The issue? Where do the other MVFC schools land? Does the rest of the Summit end up in the WAC and keep football in the MVFC? That's possible but not ideal. Travel budgets for the WAC would be painful in that situation. If the MVFC is compromised then the whole thing restarts again.

UND being added wasn't a "getting the band" back together thing. None of the Dakota's really wanted UND back, but "had" to vote for them as a PR thing. UND screwed themselves when they moved up with USD. They took a very "better than the Summit/MVFC" approach and went to the Big Sky (ROFL on all accounts). They've had their athletic budget about $2 million last year and this coming year. They were going bankrupt with how they do things. They've cut sports. They weaseled their way into the Summit/MVFC as a money saving issue.

I also have a hard time seeing the state of SD let SDSU leave USD. The state also has a ton of constraints for funding/coaches contracts that worry me. They only allow like 2 year contracts, or something like that. Their new football stadium and IPF also drained a ton of funding for the shorter term.

NDSU seems to have no interest in leaving their "ideal" set up with how the Summit is set up currently. SDSU is likely very willing, but they seem to be "partnered" with NDSU going back to the D2 days and moving to D1.

I think going to 12 with NDSU, SDSU and one of Belmont/Valpo/Murray State is the right option. There are just a bunch of extra hurdles to clear that route to ensure the MVFC isn't negatively impacted.

If we are going to focus on basketball the need to still to go to 12 and some combo of UALR, Valpo, Belmont, Murray State, UW-Milwaukee, NMSU, SLU (dream I know) needs to be the target.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Cdizzle » March 21st, 2017, 10:21 am

Redhawk wrote:
1) WSU OWNS the Valley. Why should they move? Uh...to become a higher profile University.

WSU doesn't own the Valley other than on the playing field. The Valley knows WSU wants out but can't go unless invited elsewhere. WSU has zero leverage against the Valley.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Dean Wormer » March 21st, 2017, 10:26 am

Redhawk wrote:
Dean Wormer wrote:I don't agree with the UIC being a long term better choice than Valpo.


For the record...I think UIC is way down the list of choices if we add only one school.
There are however only 3 growing and prospering Public Universities in Illinois....
UofI, ISU and UIC.

Not real high on Valpo or the NW Indiana market for that matter.
Valpo would be another Evansville in the Valley. Small university,
small market, small budget, small arena, small, small, small....the Valley needs BIG!



From what I remember, I believe Evansville's basketball budget is not near the bottom. Certainly the facilities are above par, and the arena isn't anywhere near small. I think coaching salary may be light, but does Simmons deserve any more?

There is no BIG out there, but without Wichita, I am not so sure there is any BIG in here either.
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