MSU checks in at #35, WSU in at #40

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Re: MSU checks in at #35, WSU in at #40

Postby beatingrillz » September 17th, 2010, 11:56 pm

you know your right with that poor perforfmance he still managed to be the top ten in almost all stats in confernce i guess we will have to wait for his coming out party. Ask any coach in the valley what player is the toughest to shut down it will be weems. to big for the guards to athletic for the 4 spot
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Re: MSU checks in at #35, WSU in at #40

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Re: MSU checks in at #35, WSU in at #40

Postby BEELINE » September 18th, 2010, 6:49 am

Whether Weems is the MVC's best or not, he certainly is in the conversation. Citing a game stat here and there while ignoring a year's worth of across the board top 10 league finishes is a weak argument. But to be at that level, Kyle needs to do the thing that top players ultimately are measured by, lead the Bears to a significant season.

Same goes for Marshall; things look to be on schedule for WSU, but only if they make the NCAA tourney this year. Right now it's 3 years and no post season wins. If this is an NCAA year, he's been a good investment.If not, you're looking at 4 years, no NCAA tourney, and there will be a number of coaches with alot less resources making alot less money doing better jobs. I think he'll probably get it done, but if it doesn't happen this year, then I think it's fair to say it hasn't gone the way it was expected.

On the same front to be fair, Zo is just one year behind the same time schedule and expectations. To date, things look on schedule, but you have to keep making progress and ultimately achieve or it's fair to say things haven't met expectations.
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Re: MSU checks in at #35, WSU in at #40

Postby 45otseoj » September 18th, 2010, 10:55 am

beatingrillz wrote:you know your right with that poor perforfmance he still managed to be the top ten in almost all stats in confernce i guess we will have to wait for his coming out party. Ask any coach in the valley what player is the toughest to shut down it will be weems. to big for the guards to athletic for the 4 spot

I'd say Downtown Taylor Brown (aka TB3) is comparable.
Points: TB3-14.2, KW-12.8
Boards: TB3-7.5, KW-6.4
Steals: TB3-1.0, KW-1.4
I'd give Weems the advantage in defensive and long range shooting,
but I think TB3 is the better athlete and has a much bigger upside.
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Re: MSU checks in at #35, WSU in at #40

Postby BEELINE » September 18th, 2010, 11:18 am

I guess you used conference only stats as Weems averaged 13.6 ppg. Brown is comparable and I like his athleticism, but two areas he falls way short is he only shot 29.4% from treys compared to 40.7% for Kyle, and he had a terrible 30/60 assists to turnover margin , while Kyle who is very solid with his decisions was almost exactly opposite 65/38. Those are deficits for Brown and strengths for Weems.
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Re: MSU checks in at #35, WSU in at #40

Postby 45otseoj » September 18th, 2010, 11:24 am

BEELINE wrote:I guess you used conference only stats as Weems averaged 13.6 ppg. Brown is comparable and I like his athleticism, but two areas he falls way short is he only shot 29.4% from treys compared to 40.7% for Kyle, and he had a terrible 30/60 assists to turnover margin , while Kyle who is very solid with his decisions was almost exactly opposite 65/38. Those are deficits for Brown and strengths for Weems.

I took conference stats so the variables were less. Of course that isn't perfect either because TB3 got himself suspended against WSU.
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Re: MSU checks in at #35, WSU in at #40

Postby Zardoz » September 18th, 2010, 1:46 pm

The guy might be right if the Shockers went with his starting line-up.

I doubt if that's the line-up Marshall uses. More likely the PG will be Demetric Williams, DWill, last years back-up point who showed a lot of gwowth over the last half of the season or Joe Ragland, Rags, a first team JuCo AA. Maybe Williams starts early and Ragland later as he adjust to the D1 game. Murry can play the 1 but something may have went wrong with the Shocker if he does.

Look for Murry back at the 2, he is a much better scorer when he doesn't have to handle PG responsibilities. Others that can play the 2 are Kyles, who this guy has starting, DWill, Rags, and Hatch.

Hatch looks to be a lock for the 3. The one guy that Marshall wanted in the game at crunch time last year was Hatch. Others that may see time at the 3 are Kyles, Murry, JuCo transfer Ben Smith and RS Freshman Tyler Richardson.

I also don't look for Ellis to start at the PF unless he can pick up he game and play up to his potential. I look for Durley here, who I think is more of a true PF than a C. That leaves Stutz at the 5 and I think he is way beyond where most expected in his development.

I think Bigs may be more useful in the MVC than PF and C. Competing for those 40 minutes we have Durley, Stutz, Blair, Ellis, RS freshman Hamilton and the highly anticipated Ehimen Orukpe.

The Shockers are a very deep talented team that returns almost everyone except All-Valley performing PG Clevin Hannah. The Shockers are hopeful the the added year of experience for the returners and the addition of 3 good JuCo transfers and 2 RS freshmen can offset that loss.
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Re: MSU checks in at #35, WSU in at #40

Postby beatingrillz » September 18th, 2010, 3:23 pm

I guess we have all forgot that ragland was a juco all american just like everyone forgot that ricks was juco player of the year
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Re: MSU checks in at #35, WSU in at #40

Postby pawball » September 18th, 2010, 4:17 pm

I'm partial to Mallet and Ricks as the lead-by-example leaders for the Bears. Neither one takes a play off, always going at it full bore. Can't recall when I've seen a couple of Bears as driven as these two are playing at the same time. Bears have a true 4 pronged scoring attack with Weems-Ricks-Mallet plus Leonard. Ricks really came on at end of last year. The bigs account for their share between them too. The loss of Pickens hurts. He gave them the extra dynomite on D and will be missed, tho might get made up for a bit by a couple of the newcomers.
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Re: MSU checks in at #35, WSU in at #40

Postby Snapshot9 » September 21st, 2010, 10:03 pm

Zardoz wrote:The guy might be right if the Shockers went with his starting line-up.

I doubt if that's the line-up Marshall uses. More likely the PG will be Demetric Williams, DWill, last years back-up point who showed a lot of gwowth over the last half of the season or Joe Ragland, Rags, a first team JuCo AA. Maybe Williams starts early and Ragland later as he adjust to the D1 game. Murry can play the 1 but something may have went wrong with the Shocker if he does.

Look for Murry back at the 2, he is a much better scorer when he doesn't have to handle PG responsibilities. Others that can play the 2 are Kyles, who this guy has starting, DWill, Rags, and Hatch.

Hatch looks to be a lock for the 3. The one guy that Marshall wanted in the game at crunch time last year was Hatch. Others that may see time at the 3 are Kyles, Murry, JuCo transfer Ben Smith and RS Freshman Tyler Richardson.

I also don't look for Ellis to start at the PF unless he can pick up he game and play up to his potential. I look for Durley here, who I think is more of a true PF than a C. That leaves Stutz at the 5 and I think he is way beyond where most expected in his development.

I think Bigs may be more useful in the MVC than PF and C. Competing for those 40 minutes we have Durley, Stutz, Blair, Ellis, RS freshman Hamilton and the highly anticipated Ehimen Orukpe.

The Shockers are a very deep talented team that returns almost everyone except All-Valley performing PG Clevin Hannah. The Shockers are hopeful the the added year of experience for the returners and the addition of 3 good JuCo transfers and 2 RS freshmen can offset that loss.



I think that most of the starters from last year will start this year:
to kick off the season:
Demetric Williams at the 1
Murry at the 2
Hatch at the 3
Blair at the 4 (I think he starts this year in lieu of Ellis)
Durley at the 5 (starts at the 5 as past years, but might switch to a 4 later on)

relieving them will be:
Joe Ragland at the 1 (possible that Rags may start later on depending on how well DWill and him do)
Kyles at the 2
Ben Smith at the 3 (good defense, and more offense, especially from the 3 - he and Richardson might alternate at this spot some)
Ellis at the 4 (good defender, better at Offense when closer to the basket - Hamilton might get some minutes at this position too)
Stutz at the 5 (He had a good year last year, and this could be a breakout year for him as a Junior)

Orukpe will fill in for Durley or Stutz at the 5 if either gets into foul problems.
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Re: MSU checks in at #35, WSU in at #40

Postby SubGod22 » September 22nd, 2010, 8:53 am

There's no way in hell Stutz doesn't start unless his summer illness was a lot worse than we were led to believe.

I also won't be surprised to see Ehimen play more than Ellis.
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