Official MVCfans.com Prediction - 4th Place

[unipanther99]

What does the KU game have to do with this?

[valleychamp]

I think the margin by which UNI is being voted 4th is more a result of lots of Jays and Shox fans being registered here compared to Panther fans rather than an overwhelming number of fans who think they will actually finish 4th.

That could be, but that's all part of how a conference-wide message board works. These things aren't exactly scientific!

It also could be that Missouri State fans are now voting for Creighton to give them separation. Perception based on the vote from the previous week has had an impact on the current voting, so it wouldn't be surprising to see Missouri State fans bumping Creighton. Missouri State and Creighton were deadlocked until yesterday. Since then Missouri State hasn't gained a vote while Creighton has jumped from 6 to 15.

Who knows? I'm not the Gallup Organization.

You really think people in missouri are that smart?

[45otseoj]

UNI

Eggs won't be easily replaced.

[valleychamp]

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact they graduated 2 players that 90% of the conference couldn't match up with and 1 other really good player/winner/shooter. Perhaps most fans think a repeat of the KU game might be a little less than 50-50, given the loss of those 3 players. A crazy idea, I know.

I realize you probably have a KU complex, but that is irrelevant to this discussion.

Everybody realizes we lost some great players, but we also return a lot of experience as well. We aren't talking about winning 30 games again. We are talking about the difference between 3rd and 4th in the MVC. Big difference.

Do you think Creighton is a better team than UNI with limited guard play, a completely new staff, and without their supposedly best player until semester?

[MoValley John]

You really think people in missouri are that smart?

I'm not going to reply to that, I'm trying to be a get along guy.

[WuDrWu]

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact they graduated 2 players that 90% of the conference couldn't match up with and 1 other really good player/winner/shooter. Perhaps most fans think a repeat of the KU game might be a little less than 50-50, given the loss of those 3 players. A crazy idea, I know.

I realize you probably have a KU complex, but that is irrelevant to this discussion.

Everybody realizes we lost some great players, but we also return a lot of experience as well. We aren't talking about winning 30 games again. We are talking about the difference between 3rd and 4th in the MVC. Big difference.

Do you think Creighton is a better team than UNI with limited guard play, a completely new staff, and without their supposedly best player until semester?

I realize you have a DIII complex. And the answer is yes, I believe Creighton has better material than UNI. They have at least equal coaching staffs. CU has a much better home court advantage.

Let's compare shall we?

Creighton is going to start Kenny Lawson & Greg Echenique in the 4-5 A couple of 6-9 guys who can score.

UNI is likely to start Jake Koch at the 4. Let's call that even against Echenique (a HUGE stretch imho). Who ever UNI puts at the 5 is at a monumental disadvantage to KLJ. That doesn't bring into account that the only other "size" you have is 6'8" 195 FR Nate Buss (redshirt possibility? I have no idea), 6'10" SO Austin Pehl (very little experience) 6'6" FR Chip Rank and Lucas O'Cheapshot.

Let's say Dunham starts at the 3. CU counters, perhaps with Runnels or Ashford. I'd take both CU guys before Dunham. I know you won't. Most objective persons will.

Yes, UNI has an advantage a guard. Kujo Aheelinhismouth and Moran are solid although Moran is a bit of a defensive liability. Kujo is not. Sonnen and James are solid back ups.

Antoine Young is good. Not Kujo good, but he'll hold his own. Wragge couldn't guard anyone last year, but at times he couldn't be stopped at the other end...certainly the Panthers can't guard him with Moran. CU will rely more on the unknowns at G than UNI. Josh Jones is every bit as solid a backup as James or Sonnen.

For the same reason UNI was better than everyone last year (size in the middle) CU is likely to be better this year. Maybe UNI will end up on top. But it will be a surprise....A BIG surprise, and other schools will have to play down.

[valleychamp]

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact they graduated 2 players that 90% of the conference couldn't match up with and 1 other really good player/winner/shooter. Perhaps most fans think a repeat of the KU game might be a little less than 50-50, given the loss of those 3 players. A crazy idea, I know.

I realize you probably have a KU complex, but that is irrelevant to this discussion.

Everybody realizes we lost some great players, but we also return a lot of experience as well. We aren't talking about winning 30 games again. We are talking about the difference between 3rd and 4th in the MVC. Big difference.

Do you think Creighton is a better team than UNI with limited guard play, a completely new staff, and without their supposedly best player until semester?

I realize you have a DIII complex. And the answer is yes, I believe Creighton has better material than UNI. They have at least equal coaching staffs. CU has a much better home court advantage.

Let's compare shall we?

Creighton is going to start Kenny Lawson & Greg Echenique in the 4-5 A couple of 6-9 guys who can score.

UNI is likely to start Jake Koch at the 4. Let's call that even against Echenique (a HUGE stretch imho). Who ever UNI puts at the 5 is at a monumental disadvantage to KLJ. That doesn't bring into account that the only other "size" you have is 6'8" 195 FR Nate Buss (redshirt possibility? I have no idea), 6'10" SO Austin Pehl (very little experience) 6'6" FR Chip Rank and Lucas O'Cheapshot.

Let's say Dunham starts at the 3. CU counters, perhaps with Runnels or Ashford. I'd take both CU guys before Dunham. I know you won't. Most objective persons will.

Yes, UNI has an advantage a guard. Kujo Aheelinhismouth and Moran are solid although Moran is a bit of a defensive liability. Kujo is not. Sonnen and James are solid back ups.

Antoine Young is good. Not Kujo good, but he'll hold his own. Wragge couldn't guard anyone last year, but at times he couldn't be stopped at the other end...certainly the Panthers can't guard him with Moran. CU will rely more on the unknowns at G than UNI. Josh Jones is every bit as solid a backup as James or Sonnen.

For the same reason UNI was better than everyone last year (size in the middle) CU is likely to be better this year. Maybe UNI will end up on top. But it will be a surprise....A BIG surprise, and other schools will have to play down.

What is your reasoning for believing CU and UNI have 'equal' coaching staffs? I don't see any logic behind that argument. For starters BJ has a career 3-1 record vs Mac, and that was while he was at a B12 school. Not to mention the MVC/NCAA success that BJ has compared to Mac. I don't think you can underestimate the fact that one team has continuity and the other team is installing a whole new coaching staff. Those are not easy transitions, especially for CU who had the same coach for 15 years.

CU has a better homecourt advantage? Fine. Not really sure why wanted to factor that in. But for the record, UNI hasn't lost a home game since Feb of 2009.

Lol at Moran not being able to defend freaking Ethan Wragge. He is one of our more versatile defenders, and often defends 6'7 wing players. Moran guarded Xavier Henry in the KU game, and did a heck of a job.

UNI has played fantastic team defense under BJ. that has always been the great equalizer for us. You can argue all you want about individual matchups (and we do not match up with a lot of teams individually), but if we are holding teams to >60 points, we are going to win most of those games.

Its no doubt that CU probably has the best big men in the league this year, but I think their guard play is average at best. Who is going to score?

[MSUDuo]

I think the margin by which UNI is being voted 4th is more a result of lots of Jays and Shox fans being registered here compared to Panther fans rather than an overwhelming number of fans who think they will actually finish 4th.

That could be, but that's all part of how a conference-wide message board works. These things aren't exactly scientific!

It also could be that Missouri State fans are now voting for Creighton to give them separation. Perception based on the vote from the previous week has had an impact on the current voting, so it wouldn't be surprising to see Missouri State fans bumping Creighton. Missouri State and Creighton were deadlocked until yesterday. Since then Missouri State hasn't gained a vote while Creighton has jumped from 6 to 15.

Who knows? I'm not the Gallup Organization.

I voted for CU but that was back on Monday. I have no clue how the votes have turned out for each team over the past few weeks but considering you keep losing a team to vote for each week the votes could be coming from anywhere.

Personally, I think MSU finishes 2nd behind WSU and no worse than 3rd. Really I don't see a huge difference between CU and UNI based on what I know. But given that CU has a staff and UNI does return some good experience, I went with CU at 4th and UNI will be my 3rd place vote.

But in regards to your comment, we don't have that many members here. I doubt we top 8-10 that would actually vote so I don't think it is us that are swaying the votes. Like I said, there are fewer teams to vote for so the votes for any other team could be coming from anywhere. Like Baller said, I think it was him, it would be cool to see who everybody has voted for.

[beatingrillz]

it looks more like wsu is the one with the seperation not saying anything more than that.

[WuDrWu]

Lol at Moran not being able to defend freaking Ethan Wragge. He is one of our more versatile defenders, and often defends 6'7 wing players. Moran guarded Xavier Henry in the KU game, and did a heck of a job.

UNI has played fantastic team defense under BJ. that has always been the great equalizer for us. You can argue all you want about individual matchups (and we do not match up with a lot of teams individually), but if we are holding teams to >60 points, we are going to win most of those games.

Its no doubt that CU probably has the best big men in the league this year, but I think their guard play is average at best. Who is going to score?

No offense, but you aren't that sharp. Now you are saying Moran can stop Henry. Immediately back away from the bong water.

Yes, IF you are holding teams to under 60 points, you're going to win a lot of games. NO, you aren't going to do that without the big senior talent you had last year. You don't get the game of basketball, but that's ok.

You've got to stop looking at one game (admittedly, 1 gorgeous game) against KU and projecting every positive from that game onto the future of UNI athletics.

I hope you are capable of understanding without Koch, OWI and Farokmadenijiad the final score of that game is somewhere in the 126-12 range.

Look, UNI will still be solid, well coached, disciplined and play as a team. They will win more games than they will lose in all likelihood. If the freshman talent is better than everyone thinks it is, and they are ready to be 1st or 2nd team type players, then perhaps they will challenge for the top of the Valley. As I said before, this result would be more than surprising.