Comparing Lowery to ... Royce Waltman?

[pafan]

A little reading from this January:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketb ... gtime-ball

Royce Waltman claimed at his final Arch Madness press conference (see the above link) that he was mostly fired for "not winning". His record at ISU-Blue? 134-164 in 10 seasons, including two NCAA appearances. He coached the first ISU team in 18 years to have a winning season (1998). But, as you all remember, Waltman's final years at ISU-Blue were forgettable. 58-114 in Waltman's final five years; finishing 10th in the Valley four of those.

Some columnists mourned his firing.

LowreyWaltman.jpeg (29.9 KiB) Viewed 1545 times

In that very article, one of the notes at the end is how Chris Lowery was being pursued by BCS schools like Minnesota.

Other than not winning, there's very little in common between Lowery and Waltman. ISU was scandal free -- none of this "five players arrested in the last 12 months." No rashes of academically ineligible players who then magically became eligible again during the middle of a semester.

Waltman didn't recruit well, but CLo has recruited worse. Waltman ran an old-school offense - essentially the same Bobby Knight-inspired offense that UE uses today. SIU's offense doesn't seem to be accurately described by any of the old terms, other than "bad."

Perhaps the most disheartening thought for those personally close to Chris Lowery: No columnists will mourn Lowery whenever SIU finally pulls the trigger. And like Waltman, never again will Lowery be pursued by a D1 program.

To Mario Moccia: If you hold out long enough, you might be able to hire Bruce Pearl.

[Aargh]

For the InSu fans who don't understand why InSU gets no respect, Waltman is the personification of InSU's entire basketball tradition with the exception of the Bird years. There's a reason InSU kept a losing coach for 10 years - he was producing exactly what InSU was accustomed to and expecting from a coach.

I disagree with the statement that CLo hasn't recruited well. He's had some of the best recruiting classes in the Valley. The breakdown has been in developing and retaining that talent. The really sad part is that CLo has taken great recruits and apparently made them worse - then they decided to leave SIU.

[havoc]

I disagree with the statement that CLo hasn't recruited well. He's had some of the best recruiting classes in the Valley. The breakdown has been in developing and retaining that talent. The really sad part is that CLo has taken great recruits and apparently made them worse - then they decided to leave SIU.

I disagree. Some of the best recruiting classes in the Valley according to whom? We all know rating services aren't exactly worth their weight in gold. Moreover, I wouldn't call it good recruiting to go out and just try to get the most talented guy possible and not worrying about things like team chemistry and if the player fits the mold of the system. P’Allen Stinnett at Creighton is the best example.

[PowderBlue]

For the InSu fans who don't understand why InSU gets no respect, Waltman is the personification of InSU's entire basketball tradition with the exception of the Bird years. There's a reason InSU kept a losing coach for 10 years - he was producing exactly what InSU was accustomed to and expecting from a coach.

That AD was fired (thank God) along with or just before Royce was let go. To be fair, in his last season, the team started 8-0 including wins over IU, Butler, and Ball State and was receiving votes in both national polls before Moss went down with an injury along with Eric Gray's issues. The 11 straight losses (which lined up exactly with Moss's absence and nearly exactly with all of Gray's issues) that came after that completely derailed the team and the coach who was instrumental in bringing Menser, Renn, Moss, Marshall, and Tunnell to the Sycs...IIRC ISUb was winning at Wichita State when Moss went down and Eric Gray imploded right before or after that game. It's not like Royce was a bad coach. He lost two or three assistants after the two NCAA appearances and made some very sketchy hires.

Anyway, the new AD has made a couple of gutsy hires in athletics in general, and it's nice to see the culture actually starting to change instead of hearing about how it needs to change.

Lowry doesn't have the best basketball players. He tries to recruit athletes and force them into a system that they don't want to play, IMO.

[Sycamore_DevilDog]

For the InSu fans who don't understand why InSU gets no respect, Waltman is the personification of InSU's entire basketball tradition with the exception of the Bird years. There's a reason InSU kept a losing coach for 10 years - he was producing exactly what InSU was accustomed to and expecting from a coach.

aargh, your comment, "Waltman is the personification of InSu's ENTIRE basketball tradition with the exception of the Bird years", is just downright wrong and illustrates your prejudice, bias and failure to research the history of InSU basketball and the history of other InSU athletic programs;i.e.,gymnastics and wrestling which were NATIONAL powers.
It would behoove you to do some research. I don't know your age, but years back when NCAA basketball wasn't nearly as popular as today with fewer Div. One programs, InSU and Uni. Of Evansville were two of the premier programs in Div. Two.
As with many of today's programs, they evolved into NCAA Div. One. These programs and others that are now Div. One wouldn't have made the leap if not for success at their previous level. The battles between InSu and Evansville when they were members of the Indiana Collegiate Conference(ICC)were epic and the rosters were full of some of Indiana high school's best players.
If you will go to the InSU web site, GoSycamores.com, I believe there is a link to History/Tradition that will enable you to enlighten yourself about InSu's athletic history. If their past was as terrible as you pointed out, I seriously doubt InSu would have been tendered an offer to join the MVC.
As for the Bird era, even today, the InSu-Michigan State game remains the NCAA's National Championship games "Most Viewed" game. In addition, that game, with Bird and "Magic" Johnson, along with InSU being UNDEFEATED at 32-0, is credited with being the most influential rise to NCAA basketball's popularity.
Granted, the leadership failed miserably in their failure to take advantage of InSu's success during this period. Thankfully, that leadership is gone and InSU has a wonderful President who supports the athletic programs along with a great A.D.(Prettyman)and staff.
So, in closing, you can take your ill founded and disparaging comments and shove them where the sun doesn't shine...P.S. Have a GREAT day.

[Aargh]

InSU and Uni. Of Evansville were two of the premier programs in Div. Two.

I'm glad that InSU fans are proud of their achievements in D2. I say that without sarcasm. I'm old enough to remember when Jack Hartman was very successful at Evansville in D2.

I can honestly say I had never heard of an "Indiana State University" until they were admitted to the Valley. D2 gets you noticed within 25 miles of your campus and maybe in other cities with schools in your league. There is a D2 program, Kansas Newman, in Wichita. The local paper doesn't cover their games. To find anything about Newman on the local paper's web site, click on Sports, then scroll down about 2 screens worth and click on "State Colleges". there it is: Newman 76, Emporia State 60. The score - that's all. No box score no writeup - nothing. And Emporia State is another D2 just 90 miles from Wichita.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but there's no way to avoid it if you choose to feel disrespected. Let me try a baseball analogy. Let's say there's a player for the Red Sox who's hitting .197. That player can be very proud of the fact that several years ago he hit .380 for the Toledo Mud Hens. Fans in Toledo will fondly remember the guy who single-handedly led them to their league championship. The only thing Yankee fans know about that guy is "whatever you do, don't walk him".

Success at one level may be an indicator of success at a higher level, but you've got to start from scratch at that higher level, and only what you do at that level counts in that level.

[troutangler]

I can honestly say I had never heard of an "Indiana State University" until they were admitted to the Valley. D2 gets you noticed within 25 miles of your campus and maybe in other cities with schools in your league. There is a D2 program, Kansas Newman, in Wichita. The local paper doesn't cover their games. To find anything about Newman on the local paper's web site, click on Sports, then scroll down about 2 screens worth and click on "State Colleges". there it is: Newman 76, Emporia State 60. The score - that's all. No box score no writeup - nothing. And Emporia State is another D2 just 90 miles from Wichita.

This is the opposite of the Springfield media, who cover every school known to man. The Springfield paper has sports stories dedicated to Drury (D2) and Evangel (NAIA). The main sports talk radio station has a Drury radio show on Saturday mornings (Although that is mainly because sponsors pay for it). The morning sports talk show and Art Hains' show from 4-6 in the afternoon regularly have coaches from every college program in the area on for interviews, from Missouri State to the two Bible colleges in town. Drury women's basketball has every game on the radio, and some on TV. Springfield is a smaller city than Wichita or Omaha, so I guess that is why these other programs get so much publicity. I guess it's a good thing because everyone gets covered, but I think it's also a detriment to Missouri State. MSU doesn't help themselves either with poor marketing, poor ticket sales strategies, etc. We only had 8,600 in JQH for Oklahoma State last night. If OSU were playing in Omaha or Wichita, either place would be sold out.

[CaseyGarrisonforPrez]

I can honestly say I had never heard of an "Indiana State University" until they were admitted to the Valley. D2 gets you noticed within 25 miles of your campus and maybe in other cities with schools in your league. There is a D2 program, Kansas Newman, in Wichita. The local paper doesn't cover their games. To find anything about Newman on the local paper's web site, click on Sports, then scroll down about 2 screens worth and click on "State Colleges". there it is: Newman 76, Emporia State 60. The score - that's all. No box score no writeup - nothing. And Emporia State is another D2 just 90 miles from Wichita.

This is the opposite of the Springfield media, who cover every school known to man. The Springfield paper has sports stories dedicated to Drury (D2) and Evangel (NAIA). The main sports talk radio station has a Drury radio show on Saturday mornings (Although that is mainly because sponsors pay for it). The morning sports talk show and Art Hains' show from 4-6 in the afternoon regularly have coaches from every college program in the area on for interviews, from Missouri State to the two Bible colleges in town. Drury women's basketball has every game on the radio, and some on TV. Springfield is a smaller city than Wichita or Omaha, so I guess that is why these other programs get so much publicity. I guess it's a good thing because everyone gets covered, but I think it's also a detriment to Missouri State. MSU doesn't help themselves either with poor marketing, poor ticket sales strategies, etc. We only had 8,600 in JQH for Oklahoma State last night. If OSU were playing in Omaha or Wichita, either place would be sold out.

You read my mind. MSU could be so big if the Springfield media focused on them. Instead they talk about Drury, Evangel, Arkansas, and Missou stuff that doesn't help us. Makes me crazy because the market is there for MSU stuff more than anything. Yet Look at how hard it is to get Missouri State gear anywhere. Shouldn't be that hard.

The attendance should be better but that number last night is okay. More than the two schools in this state that have been ranked reguarly get. And always more than their women's teams too. If our marketing wasn't run by clueless stooges then that would help us too. I bet if we had won either the ORU or UNM games that it would have been sold out last night.

[shocktheheart]

I can honestly say I had never heard of an "Indiana State University" until they were admitted to the Valley. D2 gets you noticed within 25 miles of your campus and maybe in other cities with schools in your league. There is a D2 program, Kansas Newman, in Wichita. The local paper doesn't cover their games. To find anything about Newman on the local paper's web site, click on Sports, then scroll down about 2 screens worth and click on "State Colleges". there it is: Newman 76, Emporia State 60. The score - that's all. No box score no writeup - nothing. And Emporia State is another D2 just 90 miles from Wichita.

This is the opposite of the Springfield media, who cover every school known to man. The Springfield paper has sports stories dedicated to Drury (D2) and Evangel (NAIA). The main sports talk radio station has a Drury radio show on Saturday mornings (Although that is mainly because sponsors pay for it). The morning sports talk show and Art Hains' show from 4-6 in the afternoon regularly have coaches from every college program in the area on for interviews, from Missouri State to the two Bible colleges in town. Drury women's basketball has every game on the radio, and some on TV. Springfield is a smaller city than Wichita or Omaha, so I guess that is why these other programs get so much publicity. I guess it's a good thing because everyone gets covered, but I think it's also a detriment to Missouri State. MSU doesn't help themselves either with poor marketing, poor ticket sales strategies, etc. We only had 8,600 in JQH for Oklahoma State last night. If OSU were playing in Omaha or Wichita, either place would be sold out.

You read my mind. MSU could be so big if the Springfield media focused on them. Instead they talk about Drury, Evangel, Arkansas, and Missou stuff that doesn't help us. Makes me crazy because the market is there for MSU stuff more than anything. Yet Look at how hard it is to get Missouri State gear anywhere. Shouldn't be that hard.

The attendance should be better but that number last night is okay. More than the two schools in this state that have been ranked reguarly get. And always more than their women's teams too. If our marketing wasn't run by clueless stooges then that would help us too. I bet if we had won either the ORU or UNM games that it would have been sold out last night.

Shouldn't matter if you won the other two games. You have a BCS team on your home court and you can't sell out after winning a Valley Championship the year before? 10 years ago it was hard to find WSU apparell anywhere but the bookstore and a couple of local sporting good outlets. Now you can find WSU gear at the grocery store, Walmart, Dick's, Sports Authority, Wallgreens, etc...Sounds like whoever handles your licensing needs to get on the ball and get more stores to carry MSU gear. When the former WSU AD Shaus took over, the gear seemed to show up in many more stores.

[MoValley John]

Shamelessly stolen from SalukiTalk: