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MoValley John wrote:

DUBulldog wrote:
I'm guessing that we all notice the official more when we have an emotional attachment to the game we're watching.

About half of Drake's home games are on TV in Des Moines, and I usually tape them and watch them again a few days after watching in person. The officiating never seems as bad when I'm watching the tape.

First off, tough game for the Bears. I was pulling for them.

Secondly, DUBulldog just lost a ton of credibility with me. Dolph Pulliam disagrees that the calls get better a few days later. Dolph never saw a call and never watched a replay where bad officiating got better. Who should I trust, DUBulldog or Dolph? My money goes with Dolph.

LOL, for years I've heard Dolph tell a story about the Drake-UCLA game in the national semi-finals in 1969. Dolph got an offensive rebound and scored with 7-8 seconds left to cut the UCLA lead to one. To this day, Dolph insists that he got fouled on the putback, and he should have been at the line with a chance to tie the game.

About 5 years ago, Drake was selling DVD's of that game, so I bought one (never saw the game before then). There was nothing even close to a foul on the play.

Dolph is a great guy, the nicest guy you'll ever meet. But, he watches all games through blue goggles. If you don't know what to expect when you turn on the radio feed, he's probably really annoying, especially for opposing fans. If you know what to expect, he's hilarious.

I absolutely LOVE listening to Dolph!!!!

Rank did travel because he caught the ball from Koch, landed on two feet, jumped off both feet and landed on two feet again. The subsequent pivots were irrelevant but they weren't traveling by themselves.

shocktheheart wrote:There is no such thing as a Valley official. Each official can work for any conference they want to throughout the year.

I disagree there is no thing as a MVC official. There are specific official that work MVC games. They are assigned by the MVC. Just because they can ref other games is irrelevant, the MVC have a choice of whether a guy will or will not referee a MVC game. From the MVC website they says this:

The MVC officials are aggressively trained and are held accountable for both their performance and their judgment. Contests are carefully reviewed via a number of devices, including videotape, coaches' reports, referee reports, on-site observations, etc.

Evaluations of officiating mechanics, rules interpretations and implementation, game management and judgment are conveyed to the appropriate parties within the Conference infrastructure via established administrative procedures. To protect the integrity of the process, these evaluations are not made public (except in the most extreme circumstances). While perfection and consistency are always the goal, some errors are inevitable. Those corrections that need to be addressed are handled through appropriate channels. At the same time, effective and accurate officiating decisions/actions are reinforced through the same vehicles.

Snaggletooth wrote:

shocktheheart wrote:There is no such thing as a Valley official. Each official can work for any conference they want to throughout the year.

I disagree there is no thing as a MVC official. There are specific official that work MVC games. They are assigned by the MVC. Just because they can ref other games is irrelevant, the MVC have a choice of whether a guy will or will not referee a MVC game. From the MVC website they says this:

They are not assigned by the MVC and the league office doesn't decide who works what games. There is a coordinator of officials in every conference that decides both if those things, and he doesn't work for the conference. They are independent contractors, so they don't work for the league. Also, there are some who may only work 4-5 MVC games all year.

troutangler wrote:

Snaggletooth wrote:

shocktheheart wrote:There is no such thing as a Valley official. Each official can work for any conference they want to throughout the year.

I disagree there is no thing as a MVC official. There are specific official that work MVC games. They are assigned by the MVC. Just because they can ref other games is irrelevant, the MVC have a choice of whether a guy will or will not referee a MVC game. From the MVC website they says this:

They are not assigned by the MVC and the league office doesn't decide who works what games. There is a coordinator of officials in every conference that decides both if those things, and he doesn't work for the conference. They are independent contractors, so they don't work for the league. Also, there are some who may only work 4-5 MVC games all year.

Yes, but it's not like they're Globtrotters, either. Most NCAA referees only ref in 2, maybe 3, conferences.

MSUBear42 wrote:

troutangler wrote:

Snaggletooth wrote:
I disagree there is no thing as a MVC official. There are specific official that work MVC games. They are assigned by the MVC. Just because they can ref other games is irrelevant, the MVC have a choice of whether a guy will or will not referee a MVC game. From the MVC website they says this:

They are not assigned by the MVC and the league office doesn't decide who works what games. There is a coordinator of officials in every conference that decides both if those things, and he doesn't work for the conference. They are independent contractors, so they don't work for the league. Also, there are some who may only work 4-5 MVC games all year.

Yes, but it's not like they're Globtrotters, either. Most NCAA referees only ref in 2, maybe 3, conferences.

You'd be surprised.....here' the breakdown for the 3 officials who did the Drake-ISU game yesterday

Scott Thornley

Randy McCall

John "Baywatch" Higgins

They do work in more than 2-3 conferences....Higgins has already worked 6 different conferences this season. Thornley and McCall have each worked 4 different conferences this season. And, conference seasons are less than half over, so those numbers could be even higher by the end of the season.

troutangler wrote:

Snaggletooth wrote:

shocktheheart wrote:There is no such thing as a Valley official. Each official can work for any conference they want to throughout the year.

I disagree there is no thing as a MVC official. There are specific official that work MVC games. They are assigned by the MVC. Just because they can ref other games is irrelevant, the MVC have a choice of whether a guy will or will not referee a MVC game. From the MVC website they says this:

They are not assigned by the MVC and the league office doesn't decide who works what games. There is a coordinator of officials in every conference that decides both if those things, and he doesn't work for the conference. They are independent contractors, so they don't work for the league. Also, there are some who may only work 4-5 MVC games all year.

So are you saying the Coordinator for Officials Eddie Jackson does not work for the MVC? He doesn't evaluate the officials that work for MVC games? Has no hand in deciding who works MVC games? Please.

MSUBear42 wrote:Yes, but it's not like they're Globtrotters, either. Most NCAA referees only ref in 2, maybe 3, conferences.

This still doesn't make any difference. I keep hearing the "The Valley refs are the worst in the country" line, which is impossible because the same ones that the Valley uses are the ones working in the Big 10, Big 12, CUSA, Summit, OVC, etc. They don't get worse just because they have a Valley game on a given night and step it up when they have a CUSA game the next night.

Snaggletooth wrote:
So are you saying the Coordinator for Officials Eddie Jackson does not work for the MVC? He doesn't evaluate the officials that work for MVC games? Has no hand in deciding who works MVC games? Please.

I should correct one of my statements: I don't know for sure if Eddie Jackson or any other conference coordinator is actually employed by the conference or not. Some of them assign for several different conferences, so that leads me to believe that they don't actually have an employer/employee relationship, but the conferences instead "contract" the coordinators to provide officials for their games.

Either way, the coordinators are the ones in charge of who works what games. I said that in the post you quoted, so what's not clear about it? The officials don't work for the conference office, they work for the coordinator as an independent contractor. As I posted above, they are "MVC officials" only because they are on the roster for working MVC games. They aren't exclusively MVC officials that only work games in this league, so when someone says "MVC refs are the worst", they are wrong because that is impossible.

Even John Adams, the national coordinator, has nothing to do with who works what games. His only authority is over who works the NCAA tournament, not who works certain regular season games.