Why automatic bids should be eliminated

[RoyalShock]

I have never believed the goal was to get the best 68 teams into the tournament. There are 360+ D1 teams. There is no way to play a schedule that even remotely determines who the top X-number of teams are. So every team is given an opportunity to prove their worth and win the national championship. This is done through a combination of conference tournaments and the NCAA tournament. Seattle U, Bryant U, Prairie Veiw A&M, et al. all have that opportunity. That's the way I look at it. Keep the auto-bids. If you don't, half of D1 might as well quit trying.

That said, I do think the number of D1 teams has gotten unwieldly. But I don't have a good solution for dealing with that issue.

And FWIW, injecting race into this discussion isn't going to go anywhere good. Can we just drop that side of this debate, please?

[CaseyGarrisonforPrez]

I have a few thoughts on this:

1. Is this actually a serious argument when we have 68 teams in the tournament now? Yes, 68 teams. I can understand a little bit in the old 48 team model but goodness me complaining about the lower level conferences when four of those schools have to play a play in game just to make it to the Dance? That seems almost criminal to me.

2. The MEAC and SWAC will always have autobids. And they darn well should. But even if this was a serious argument explain to me how two conferences full of HBCU schools are going to be left out? Yeah the NCAA won't allow that or risk all sorts of political attacks. And again they SHOULD feel the brunt of that should this ever come to fruition.

3. The irony of us arguing that our schools should get more in and that those lower level schools are worthless in the dance is the absolute height of hypocrisy. We have complained for years about the BCS schools and that we need equality and fairness...and now we are going to turn around and tell the Northeast Conference that they shouldn't have an auto bid? Yeah, that is completely ridiculous.

Lastly Jay Bilas is a lawyer and he likes to argue. Anyone actually in support of eliminating auto bids needs to have their heads examined. That would be completely unAmerican and violates the very fabric of what makes college sports great. In general we argue points on this board and it does not affect me one way or another but I am honestly completely and utterly taken aback that so many of US actually like this idea. I am having a really hard time here articulating my points because it just blows my mind.

[Ace Dad]

I just checked - for at least the last four years, the lowest rated conferences EACH OF THOSE YEARS are the SWAC, MEAC and Great West. It also looks like many of the Great West schools only recently became D1, or are/were transitioning to D1 during this time frame, FWIW.

In four years they will still be the lowest ranked conferences. If you reduce the D1 conferences from 32 to 28 then conference #24 -#28 will be the lowest ranked and someone will claim they are not good enough to participate in the big dance. If we reduce D1 to 20 conferences, then someone will say that #18-#20 are not good enough. The NCAA has determined that the 32 conferences are members. So, give them their due rights.

I think the NCAA should give them the incentive to move up. Only allowing the autobid from the top 28 conferences each year would force a higher level of competitiveness from the bottom 8 or so conferences. That also would allow a paticullarly good school to earn an at-large even if the conference was really sucking. I also think that in order to get an at-large you need to go .500 in your conference games. That would help prevent the super-conferences from getting an inflated RPI due to only playing top 50 teams in conference formats.

I agree with your approach. For example, there are 5 divisions in competitive soccer: D1-D5. D1 is considered the most competitive and D5 the least. The lowest two finishers in D1 drop to D2 in soccer and the top 2 finishers in D2 go to D1. This allows the better teams in a division to move up and the weaker teams to move down. You could not use this system in college basketball, but your approach could be used with the Top XX conferences being rewarded and the Lower YY conferences not being rewarded.

[Ace Dad]

I have a few thoughts on this:

1. Is this actually a serious argument when we have 68 teams in the tournament now? Yes, 68 teams. I can understand a little bit in the old 48 team model but goodness me complaining about the lower level conferences when four of those schools have to play a play in game just to make it to the Dance? That seems almost criminal to me.

2. The MEAC and SWAC will always have autobids. And they darn well should. But even if this was a serious argument explain to me how two conferences full of HBCU schools are going to be left out? Yeah the NCAA won't allow that or risk all sorts of political attacks. And again they SHOULD feel the brunt of that should this ever come to fruition.

3. The irony of us arguing that our schools should get more in and that those lower level schools are worthless in the dance is the absolute height of hypocrisy. We have complained for years about the BCS schools and that we need equality and fairness...and now we are going to turn around and tell the Northeast Conference that they shouldn't have an auto bid? Yeah, that is completely ridiculous.

Lastly Jay Bilas is a lawyer and he likes to argue. Anyone actually in support of eliminating auto bids needs to have their heads examined. That would be completely unAmerican and violates the very fabric of what makes college sports great. In general we argue points on this board and it does not affect me one way or another but I am honestly completely and utterly taken aback that so many of US actually like this idea. I am having a really hard time here articulating my points because it just blows my mind.

Excellent post.

I have no problem with the MEAC or SWAC is left out as long as other lowly situated conferences are treated the same way. My blood boils when ONLY the MEAC and SWAC are singled out.

[pafan]

There are
344 schools in D1.
314 in Division II
442 in Division III

All three divisions have generally grown since the NCAA went to the three division system ... around 1980?

In 1968, total membership in the NCAA was under 400.

[purple&orange]

There is something special about the auto-bids. They serve as a prelude to the tournament as almost every single team in the nation has a chance to play itself into the big stage that is the NCAA Tournament via winning their league tournament. It allows for the entire month of March to be a pressure packed adventure. For a lot of those smaller schools getting to the NCAA Tournament is a lifelong dream, the reason why they put the work in all summer long, for a chance to go play a #1 seed, to test themselves against the best. A couple years ago Morehead State was a 16 seed, battled Ohio State in Dayton before falling. Two years later, they take down Louisville in a 4-13 game. Ask those guys and I'm sure it was one of the biggest accomplishments of their lives. To me those auto bids make the tournament so special, seeing teams that don't get the press lay it all on the line for their one shot at the glory, to play the bluebloods of college hoops in the same tournament with the same opportunity.

I was 7th grade the final season that my state went to the 4 class system that Indiana has now in high school sports. 58 years ago, Milan won it all, smallest school ever to do it, basis of Hoosiers and it's still relevant. I just finished a book on that season and those small towns still remember and have so much love and adoration for the teams of long ago that stood up to the big county school and knocked them off to win a sectional. To those smaller schools/teams, that was the biggest thrill possible......beating up on your neighbor who was always "better" than you in everything. Realistically they understand they won't win a state title but that sectional means so much to so many and I think those smaller schools that get those auto-bids feel the same way.

Kids at the MEAC or SWAC schools put the same sort of effort as the kids in this league as well as those BCS leagues, often in pretty difficult circumstances. There is a love for the game at every school and for some of those small school that go on the road for a month to pay the bills, getting to see how the other half lives, charter flights, police escorts to and from the arena, and everything that goes into the tourney is what makes this tourney the one that captures the nation, even non sports fans alike.

The more and more expansion I see, it seems the bubble just keeps getting weaker every year. This is a tournament for all comers, and should continue to be.

[FeartheQ]

As my Big 12 and Big 10 buddies say at breakfast:

"Why should we feel the (MVC) get as many teams as we have in the tourney over the last few years... Their best teams would finish 6th or 7th in our conference!! How are those teams "deserving" of dancing when a better team plays in a better conference?"

I'm not saying the Valley should get 5-8 bids. I'm saying we should get more than the other 20-23 conferences we are better than. Why would we not want to put the best 68 teams possible in one tournament? Why should #1 seeds get an automatic win when they should be playing teams such as Mo State, Colorado, or Drexel.

[getreal4]

Guys, the NCAA determines what constitutes D1 and D2 and D3.

There are some overly-judgmental comments on this thread that fly in the face of NCAA by laws.

In fact, we are discussing lower tier conferences the same way the BCS programs talk about us.

money rules college athletics. So obviously the solution is the top 48 BCS teams should be awarded preferential bids and the Non BCS conferences should play into the NCAA tourney to fill out a 64 team bracket with no non BCS school being seeded higher than a 12. Very unfair to the rich BCS programs to allow a poor MVC team to take one of their preferred seeds.

[Ace Dad]

"Kids at the MEAC or SWAC schools put the same sort of effort as the kids in this league as well as those BCS leagues, often in pretty difficult circumstances. There is a love for the game at every school and for some of those small school that go on the road for a month to pay the bills, getting to see how the other half lives, charter flights, police escorts to and from the arena, and everything that goes into the tourney is what makes this tourney the one that captures the nation, even non sports fans alike."


Thank you.

[omahaben]

The auto bids are not the issue. You win your conference, you get a bid. The Ivy League and Patriot League schools deserve a shot as much as a Valley or A-10 school.

It's not surprising this was originally posted by an MSU fan. I'd be bitter too if my team got screwed by the selection committee multiple times. But MSU didn't miss out becase of a SWAC team, it missed out because the committee went against its own rules and added a 2nd Mountain West team (Air Force) instead of a 4th or 5th MVC team. Even though "conferences don't earn bids, teams do."