Baker/VanVleet - Baker/VanVleet

[BEARZ77]

Baker is no different than any other player in the league; accolades will come as he consistently plays at a high level. What has gotten the automatic gag reflex from many is the attempt to make him something he has yet to prove he is and the fact if you even mention an area of weakness you get snarling and gnashing of teeth beyond reason.

Let the kid have a great season, then you can promote the hell out of something that has been sustained rather than just hinted at.

What is a "great season" by your standards? Is an NCAA run to the Final Four not great enough for you?

We're talking individual play here; by that definition every player on every final 4 team is an All American. And that was last year; if he wants to be an All American he's gonna have to produce more than 11 ppg against cupcake competition on his home court. Every team has a couple of guys capable of that. And again I'm not dissing Baker, I'm just saying let the kid have a solid sophomore year, put up big numbers in some important games this year and he will get all the accolades he then deserves. How many times has he even scored more than 15 pts in a game ???

[Black]

If it's all about points, then I understand you then.

Gavin Thurman better pick it up.

[BEARZ77]

Not really worried about Gavin cause I'm not on here trying to convince anyone he's all world. He probably is gonna play behind a couple seniors this year, we have that luxury right now. All I worry about is the Bears stringing wins together; right now it appears other than Marcus and Gulley it will be any 2-3 of another 7-8 players who will be in position to help any given night. Who'd of thought we'd get 20 from Dorrian Williams last night, but like Gavin he started a lot of games last year as a frosh and is now an experienced bench guy, along with Pickens/Scheer/Kirk/ Thurman. This is the deepest talent we had since we went to the sweet 16 and had guys like Phillips and Brakebill and Brandon Miller on the bench.

So no points aren't everything; I just think when you start hyping a guy as much as Baker is consistently by Shock fans, he better be dominant night in and out, not just a contributor. We've got a freshman guard averaging 10.5ppg and shooting 50% from the trey, but he's just a contributor until he does it a couple years. Hell a month from now he might not even be that big a contributor; the game takes care of itself and who are stars and who aren't.

[Wufan]

Ruder looks really good early in his career. Quick release!

[BEARZ77]

Ruder looks really good early in his career. Quick release!

That's his strength and he can actually go to the hole pretty strong as well, but you know he's gotta learn to defend better, show he can handle the rock under pressure, and expand his game. But he adds a dimension we really needed with guys like Marshall and Gulley who like to slash. The guy on your team I keep waiting to really blossom is Wiggins; he should be a 12 ppg guy with his talent. He can shoot and he's athletic and long .

[Black]

Shocker fans aren't the only ones "hyping" Baker. National pundits are in love with him and rightfully so. There's not going to be too many people in love with players off 11-win teams. That's just a fact, even if it obviously rubs you the wrong way.

The reason Thurman was brought up was because of what you have said about him in this thread. You're trying to knock on Baker so now I'm bringing up Thurman and his 2.5 ppg. There were other threads around last year where Thurman was hyped by Bear fans so let's not act like this is just a WSU thing. I think WSU fans have some room to talk.

[Wufan]

Ruder looks really good early in his career. Quick release!

That's his strength and he can actually go to the hole pretty strong as well, but you know he's gotta learn to defend better, show he can handle the rock under pressure, and expand his game. But he adds a dimension we really needed with guys like Marshall and Gulley who like to slash. The guy on your team I keep waiting to really blossom is Wiggins; he should be a 12 ppg guy with his talent. He can shoot and he's athletic and long .

Wiggins will play 15-20 mpg and will score better than 1 point per 2 minutes played. He was all bench team last year and will likely be the front runner for 6th man this year. Not many stats other than points for Wiggins, and a lot of those are style points. Nick probably starts and averages double digit points for 9 other Valley schools, but he's no Ron Baker or Tekele Cotton.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Not really worried about Gavin cause I'm not on here trying to convince anyone he's all world. He probably is gonna play behind a couple seniors this year, we have that luxury right now. All I worry about is the Bears stringing wins together; right now it appears other than Marcus and Gulley it will be any 2-3 of another 7-8 players who will be in position to help any given night. Who'd of thought we'd get 20 from Dorrian Williams last night, but like Gavin he started a lot of games last year as a frosh and is now an experienced bench guy, along with Pickens/Scheer/Kirk/ Thurman. This is the deepest talent we had since we went to the sweet 16 and had guys like Phillips and Brakebill and Brandon Miller on the bench.

So no points aren't everything; I just think when you start hyping a guy as much as Baker is consistently by Shock fans, he better be dominant night in and out, not just a contributor. We've got a freshman guard averaging 10.5ppg and shooting 50% from the trey, but he's just a contributor until he does it a couple years. Hell a month from now he might not even be that big a contributor; the game takes care of itself and who are stars and who aren't.

glm1935 says Thurman is a star.

[BEARZ77]

glm1935 says Thurman is a star.

Could be in the right situation, but this year he's got three 5th year seniors playing in front of him. Gavin is very skilled, and I've no doubt is gonna have some big games this year, but his minutes will not be what they were last year. Just the way it is sometimes; I've no doubt he would start in a lot of situations elsewhere.

We've reached a point in Lusk's 3rd year where we have a bench full of guys who started quite a bit in previous years. I think that's what you hope for and expect as you establish your recruiting. We're starting 2 freshman a sophomore, and have other young talent getting better as we move forward. While I still think the jury is out on Lusks overall coaching, the guy has gone about building this program in the way we wanted with mostly HS kids we will have for 4 years and a juco or transfer here and there to fill needs. If we end up being good this year, we will be very good for the foreseeable future.

We have a great facility, state of the art learning center for athletes, the new locker rooms will be completed in the next week or two, and we just passed a petition that will pour 2-3 million more annually into facility improvements, all of which will just add to what we're getting done on the court in the next couple years.

This team is young and on it's way up, but we will be dangerous this year just the same.

[AndShock]

I can't believe Marshall backed off Thurman. That should have been a fireable offense.

Oh I forget, Marshall didn't back off. Thurman just picked Missouri State over us.