Exhibition game results - DePauw 66 Evansville 62

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Re: Exhibition game results - DePauw 66 Evansville 62

Postby Little Eddie » November 10th, 2010, 6:13 pm

AndShock wrote:
jayball wrote:Jebus...WSU fans sure are whiny.

If they are such a joke just sweep them every year and thank them for the 2 Ws. Until then STFU. They haven't kept anyone out of the tourney.

If you're not going to get it after 9 pages, I don't think you're going to get it at all.


I actually think he does get it...if WSU takes care of business like they should, they beat E-ville both games and possible get consideration for the dance. There are no nights off or gimme games in the Valley...don't blame E-ville for you team's inability to get it done that night. That just sounds pathetic...

Due to CU's recent history in the Valley, teams are more often than not very well prepared and excited to play the Jays (read target on their back). If and when the Jays lose to a "lesser team" I more often find myself blaming the Jays for not playing hard...looking past said team or whatever. In short, they should have taken care of business but didn't. I don't blame the "lesser team" for beating them.
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Re: Exhibition game results - DePauw 66 Evansville 62

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Re: Exhibition game results - DePauw 66 Evansville 62

Postby jayball » November 10th, 2010, 7:55 pm

It is easy to see how fans from WSU can scoff at the MVC and UE.
(Well everyone but MVCDRMVC of course) :Yea!: :Yea!: :Yea!:

The Shockers Valley history has been one of utter domination since joining in 1945. WSU is the second longest tenured member of this horrible conference. Do they just love to suck or what?

MVC Regular Season
WSU holds a .497 all time winning percentage in MVC games, ranking 6th out of the 10 current members. Clearly dominant and impressive. They are followed UNI at .477 and UE at .410. The Shockers boast 6 outright MVC titles 2006, 1983, 1981, 1976, 1965, 1964. Notably only one of those titles has been earned after the dreaded additions of UNI and UE. Drake has also won a MVC title during that time, so it can't be that hard.

RPI
The average overall RPI since 1992 for WSU is 143 (timeframe determined by info in the media guide). That ranks 7th out of the current 10 Valley members and just puts WSU into the top half of all D1 Programs. UNI is 6th in the MVC with a RPI 139 and UE comes in at 8th with a 164.

Conference Tournament Success
Since 1977 (that is as far as the online media guide goes), WSU has posted a .429 winning percentage at the conference tournament. 10 of their 21 wins came at home when WSU hosted the tournament in Wichita. Since moving the tourney to a neutral site WSU is 9-21. The Shocks won the tourney title twice in 1985 and 1987. They have winning tourny record against only 3 of the 10 current valley teams; ISUblue, SIU, and Drake.

Post Season
8 NCAA appearances ranks the third in the conference and likely provides the foundation for the Shockers scoffing perch. They have an 8-9 record in those appearances and their NCAA win percentage ranks 3rd in conference.

1964 1-1 (note: some websites called this an Elite Eight but others did not. It doesnt' appear WSU claims it but I'm listing it just in case)
1965 2-2(Final Four)

(In the modern world, winning 1 game in the tourney isn’t called an Elite Eight….. it is called Dana Altman’s biggest achievement. And winning 2 games these days is a S16 not a FF. However I am not going to give an asterisk to the 64 and 65 seasons. There were many fewer teams (22ish) competing in the NCAA tournament and WSU got a first round byes both years, but all D1 teams playing at that time had a similar opportunities. Basically I'm sure if CU had accomplished eithe of those, we would proudly boast of the FF or EE also. Side note: At this time UE was beating UNI in D2 hoops in a march to the National Championship. I think they try to boast of that also, but I don't know if anyone really lets them)

1976 0-1
1981 3-1(Elite Eight)
1985 0-1
1987 0-1
1988 0-1
2006 2-1 (Sweet Sixteen)

11 NIT appearances ranks 2nd in the conference behind Bradley (WSU's NIT record is 3-11)

WSU has the same number of NCAA appearances (1) as UE since the Aces joined the conference in 1994, although the Shockers were infinitely more successful in their appearance. WSU has the same number of Sweet Sixteens (1) as UNI since they joined the valley in 1991 (although UNI has been to 5 NCAA tourneys in that strech).

I guess it is just confusing why a team that hasn't been dominant in the Valley by really any measure since maybe the 1980s, would all of a sudden feel so much burden from one little formerly D2 private school? I mean seriously, if you want to kick someone out Drake and IndSt have worse numbers that Eville. :)

Face the fact guys you are in a midwest nonBCS conference. You have to earn your way in every year. Some years you have to be virtualy perfect to get at large consideration. Just adding WKU or Butler for UE isnt' getting you an auto ticket or guaranteeing the MVC multiple bids.
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Re: Exhibition game results - DePauw 66 Evansville 62

Postby DUBulldog » November 10th, 2010, 9:34 pm

jayball wrote:Conference Tournament Success
Since 1977 (that is as far as the online media guide goes.......


I'm pretty certain that 1977 was the first year of the conference tournament.
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Re: Exhibition game results - DePauw 66 Evansville 62

Postby unipanther99 » November 10th, 2010, 10:08 pm

Interesting that WSU won their first conference title in their 19th year in the conference, and repeated the next year. UNI won their first conference title in their 18th year in the conference, and repeated the next year.

This will be Evansville's 17th year in the conference. Repeat titles for the Aces in '11-'12 and '12-'13?
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Re: Exhibition game results - DePauw 66 Evansville 62

Postby AndShock » November 10th, 2010, 10:28 pm

Little Eddie wrote:
AndShock wrote:
jayball wrote:Jebus...WSU fans sure are whiny.

If they are such a joke just sweep them every year and thank them for the 2 Ws. Until then STFU. They haven't kept anyone out of the tourney.

If you're not going to get it after 9 pages, I don't think you're going to get it at all.


I actually think he does get it...if WSU takes care of business like they should, they beat E-ville both games and possible get consideration for the dance. There are no nights off or gimme games in the Valley...don't blame E-ville for you team's inability to get it done that night. That just sounds pathetic...

Due to CU's recent history in the Valley, teams are more often than not very well prepared and excited to play the Jays (read target on their back). If and when the Jays lose to a "lesser team" I more often find myself blaming the Jays for not playing hard...looking past said team or whatever. In short, they should have taken care of business but didn't. I don't blame the "lesser team" for beating them.


You don't get it either, it's been said at least 3 times in this topic, probably more. I don't care that Evansville beat us. We were not prepared to go the NCAA tourney last year and it showed game after game. The point is that Evansville's victory over us was probably their #2 highlight of the season. That is what's pathetic.

As for our lack of success, it doesn't matter to me. We've been putting 10,000+ people in the seats the past 5 years, been bringing a lot of publicity to the Valley and are set to have a really good season. I really don't think we're comparable to Evansville in any way. It's not really about success either, SIU can suck for the next 20 years and I won't be calling for them to be kicked out of the conference because I think of them as a D1 program and I think they've earned their spot in the conference. I don't think Evansville has earned anything, and no, getting an upset victory does not automatically make you a good program or better than us in any way shape or form.
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Re: Exhibition game results - DePauw 66 Evansville 62

Postby iSASO » November 10th, 2010, 10:44 pm

Evansville is still in the conference? Seriously? :roll:
Random MVCFans.com member, circa 2007: "Gregg Marshall is in over his head in this conference."
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Re: Exhibition game results - DePauw 66 Evansville 62

Postby WSUbballer » November 10th, 2010, 11:17 pm

Wow jayball.

Just when I think you have settled into an actual decent conversationalist, you pour your heart out with that monumental post. Nothing better to do on a Wednesday evening? How long did that manifesto take you?

Can we compare those awesome stats with Creighton? I would love to be compared to the God of this Conference.

Speaking of Conference Gods, who would we consider to be some of the big boys and butt-pullers of this league, since its inception? Is it Evansville? Maybe Creighton? How about Indiana State?


I know it's in your playbook to support Evansville as much as possible. It makes sense that they should be here. They have clearly pulled their weight in this league. Losing in back-to-back years to non-D1 schools isn't that embarrassing. Even outside of that, in the "bigger picture", it's obvious that they add a huge presence to this league and are fairly pulling in their share. I'm glad they are here, representing our conference in a great fashion, and pulling their own weight. Nevermind a lucky exhibition home loss. Think "bigger picture" and Evansville makes sense. Hell, even ask some UE fans like '82. He'll agree that UE belongs in the Valley.

Thanks again for your post about WSU jayball. It further cements your lack-of-mancrushness and Evansville's rightful place in the Valley!

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Re: Exhibition game results - DePauw 66 Evansville 62

Postby shockalot » November 11th, 2010, 12:23 am

jayball makes good points, though, like most, paints with too broad a brush characterizing all WSU fans as thinking the same, etc. But there are more fun facts and stats from our collective basketball past. It is true that WSU was on a higher plateau in basketball for most of the 60's, part of the 70's and most of the 80's before nose diving into hell for about 13 unlucky years. Interestingly, Creighton was a team WSU beat in the NCAA tournament in both '64 and '65 if I remember correctly, and if you compare WSU's winning percentage against Creighton from '79 through '89, it is almost exactly the same as Creighton's winning percentage against WSU from '90 to '00. Most teams go through eras of higher and lower performance levels. Most of the current Valley members have had glory periods and abysmal periods, certainly true of these two teams as well as Bradley, SIU, MSU and Illinois St. as well. UNI and Evansville had glorious DII pasts and not nearly as long a DI experience to have yet determined if they can reach a glorious period, though UNI is knocking on the door. On the other hand, Indy St. only has the three Bird years, and Drake essentially has 1970. So, they are the proven exceptions.
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Re: Exhibition game results - DePauw 66 Evansville 62

Postby DoubleJayAlum » November 11th, 2010, 8:12 am

shockalot wrote:jayball makes good points, though, like most, paints with too broad a brush characterizing all WSU fans as thinking the same, etc. But there are more fun facts and stats from our collective basketball past. It is true that WSU was on a higher plateau in basketball for most of the 60's, part of the 70's and most of the 80's before nose diving into hell for about 13 unlucky years. Interestingly, Creighton was a team WSU beat in the NCAA tournament in both '64 and '65 if I remember correctly, and if you compare WSU's winning percentage against Creighton from '79 through '89, it is almost exactly the same as Creighton's winning percentage against WSU from '90 to '00.


Very true. However, one school committed repeated recruiting violations during its run and the other didn't.
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Re: Exhibition game results - DePauw 66 Evansville 62

Postby jayball » November 11th, 2010, 8:36 am

Just to be clear....I'm not trying to say Creighton is better than anyone. And I'm not siting here trying to say UE is the best athletic department outside of Euguene, Oregon and should forever be a Valley member. I just really don't understand how and why SOME shocker fans have picked out UE to be their whipping boy and why SOME Shocker fans act like they are too good for the MVC.

Based on a few measures the Aces rank higher than Drake and InSt, but I haven't heard as much directed at those schools. Is that because UE doesn't have a D1 FF back in the 18th century? Why UE over those two? I'm serious, why should UE be the first one on the chopping block?

I completely agree that WSU is on the verge of what could potentially be a really good run with Marshall. I agree that WSU has amazing fan support and plays in a really round roundhouse. However, I find no evidence that WSU has ever DOMINATED the Valley for significant stretches of time. Clearly WSU has some great basketball tradition, had periods of success, and really capitalized on some of their postseason opportunities. But forgive me for not quite seeing why WSU should be jumping to get out of the MVC, when it is hovering around a .500 conference record all time and has won 6 MVC regular season championships in 65 years. Newsflash you guys aren't the Kansas Jayhawks and you probably never will be unless you add football and join the Big Texas conference and get to 13 Final Fours.

And finally, my point earlier in this thread was that any midwest midmajor school you bring in to replace UE, is going to have a very limited effect on the overall presitge of the Valley and the ability to get multiple bids. No one is going to give a **** if we trade UE for SLU, except maybe Majerus and he might **** in a towel. No one wants that. I've heard others talk about Bulter...and yes they have big time attention now and look pretty good as long as Stevens stays...but five years ago they had an RPI in the 270s and no one knew who they were. What if we add them and Stevens bolts and they hire Randy Smithson? We don't gain anything. IMO, it doesn't matter who the bottom teams are in any conference. The top teams get respect, prestige, free chia pets, by winning, winning alot, and winning in March.

Do you ever hear about Dusquene, La Salle, or Fordham when the analysts are talking A-10 ball and Xavier?
Do you ever hear about San Francisco when they are talking about Gonzaga?
And Butler came out of the Horizon to the National Championship even though the had to play Youngstown State and Wisc Green Bay. Did anyone mention that?

So my point is just go win games and stop acting like spoiled brats. Stop blaming UE for you not getting enough national egojobs. Win and you will get egojobs you want. No one will care about the dorky kid you ate lunch with a few times.

Right now Ali Farokmanesh is somewhere watching tape of the Kansas game and giving himself an egojob. That could be you guys. You can all cuddle up with Ehimen and listen to Eminem's Eight Mile soundtrack.
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