NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby uniftw » February 7th, 2013, 7:49 pm

pafan wrote:
Lakesbison wrote:low population state? forget the state, its the 230,000 around Fargo and western Minnesota.


Which makes the Fargo area the 2nd-smallest market in a theoretical future MVC. Only Terre Haute would be smaller.

EDIT: the above is a lie. Cedarloo, IA and Bloomington/Normal, IL are both smaller Metropolitan Statistical Areas than Terre Haute.
The Cedar Valley market also includes Cedar Rapids, Iowa City, and Dubuque though if we are talking about areas that our local channels hit.


Fargo has Fargo and that's it. They are further from the Twin Cities than Cedar Falls.
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby PantherSigEp » February 7th, 2013, 7:57 pm

da_bears wrote:
Lakesbison wrote:
da_bears wrote:no thanks. You guys bring nothing to the conference other than a low population state we won't recruit and longer travel.


NDSU is 55% minnesotan's. You dont recruit the Twin Cities? then you arent recruiting right.

low population state? forget the state, its the 230,000 around Fargo and western Minnesota.


telling a 17 year old kid they can play road games in ND and SD every year has sold, um, zero kids ever.

CU, WSU, and MSU will be gone before you would be invited.

You guys are outliers. Here is what the MVC would look like with you guys
http://i.imgur.com/ajHQsge.jpg


I assume you took out Missouri State and Creighton because you're saying they'd be gone, only SDSU would be in the geographical sphere of the MISSOURI Valley area (the Missouri River watershed). But we all know that true geography doesn't matter. Half of the conference isn't even in a state that touches the Missouri River. Sorry, carry on.
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby Lakesbison » February 7th, 2013, 8:15 pm

there you go, you need NDSU/SDSU for the missouri valley river aspect, i didnt even think about it.

NDSU is more minnesota than you think, its just that our Head Coach is from wisconsin, so he's been getting wisc kids recently.

lets face facts, the MVFC needs NDSU and if push comes to shove, the MVC olive is the one that needs to be played for the MVFC to keep NDSU.
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby PantherSigEp » February 7th, 2013, 8:25 pm

pafan wrote:
Lakesbison wrote:low population state? forget the state, its the 230,000 around Fargo and western Minnesota.


Which makes the Fargo area the 2nd-smallest market in a theoretical future MVC. Only Terre Haute would be smaller.

EDIT: the above is a lie. Cedarloo, IA and Bloomington/Normal, IL are both smaller Metropolitan Statistical Areas than Terre Haute.


Not by much.

Rank # in the U.S. & 2011 Estimate (according to the U.S. Census Bureau):
#233 Terre Haute--172,663
#235 Bloomington-Normal--170, 556
#237 Cedar Falls-Waterloo--168,289

And here's the rest of the MVC:
#58 Omaha-Council Bluffs--877,110
#86 Wichita--625,526
#88 Des Moines--580,255
#112 Springfield (MO)--440,142
#135 Peoria--379,556
#142 Evansville--359,879
#202 Fargo--212,171

CSA:
Carbondale-Marion-Herrin 126,575 (very comparable to the Ames-Boone, IA)
Brookings (SD)--31,965

So Carbondale is currently the smallest resident of the MVC. They're just over 100 miles away from St. Louis city limits so I have a hard time believing they really have a strong presence within the STL market. As a comparison, that's just under the distance from Cedar Falls to Des Moines.
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby da_bears » February 7th, 2013, 8:27 pm

Lakesbison wrote:there you go, you need NDSU/SDSU for the missouri valley river aspect, i didnt even think about it.

NDSU is more minnesota than you think, its just that our Head Coach is from wisconsin, so he's been getting wisc kids recently.

lets face facts, the MVFC needs NDSU and if push comes to shove, the MVC olive is the one that needs to be played for the MVFC to keep NDSU.


You clearly know anything about the MVC culture, its a basketball league, YSU was a football powerhouse for a few years but that didn't help them get into the MVC. WKU went FBS because they couldn't get an MVC invite. Do you think we will make an exception for you when you guys are in a much smaller state and offer less(dramatically less in basketball than WKU) And honestly the Missouri State fanbase wouldn't care if all 3 Dakotas left in football, we didn't want you in the first place.

And how does the MVFC need you guys? We have always been a strong league but its FCS(might as well be D3 in the eyes of the average football fan, nobody cares). It's not like you guys are getting us a fat TV contract or anything that actually helps us.
Last edited by da_bears on February 7th, 2013, 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby shoxrox » February 7th, 2013, 8:28 pm

The MVC and MVFC are two different entities. They aren't technically related to each other at all. Football has no bearing in a basketball-first conference, especially FCS football.

The Dakota schools offer too little from virtually every angle to be rationally considered for expansion if it ever went to that. They'll be at least 6 Valley schools that would oppose their additions. That won't get it done. Sorry.
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby Lakesbison » February 7th, 2013, 8:31 pm

[quote="shoxrox"]The MVC and MVFC are two different entities. They aren't technically related to each other at all. Football has no bearing in a basketball-first conference, especially FCS football.


what if the MVC would go FBS in football with those 6-7 schools? wouldnt that be pretty cool, the MVC needs to showcase nationally more.
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby uniftw » February 7th, 2013, 8:34 pm

Lakesbison wrote:
shoxrox wrote:The MVC and MVFC are two different entities. They aren't technically related to each other at all. Football has no bearing in a basketball-first conference, especially FCS football.


what if the MVC would go FBS in football with those 6-7 schools? wouldnt that be pretty cool, the MVC needs to showcase nationally more.

Not going to happen...If the schools go FBS together it's to the WAC and not an MVC, which won't happen.


With that, I'll warn the rest of this board to stop with lakesbison. He is a lot like a combination of cold, wsuballer, DJA, and the old MVJ all wrapped into one, except times 2
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby isumvc1 » February 7th, 2013, 8:45 pm

shoxrox wrote:The MVC and MVFC are two different entities. They aren't technically related to each other at all. Football has no bearing in a basketball-first conference, especially FCS football.

The Dakota schools offer too little from virtually every angle to be rationally considered for expansion if it ever went to that. There will be at least 6 Valley schools that would oppose their additions. That won't get it done. Sorry.


^^ THIS ^^ as I mentioned before, adding dakota territorial schools increases travel costs exponentially for ALL MVC schools, especially for all the olympic sports, I would venture to say that 8 schools would oppose these additions
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby TheAsianSensation » February 7th, 2013, 9:03 pm

I figured that the XDSUs, if push came to shove, would be forced to play the "take us for everything or we leave the MVCF" card. Assuming the Summit crumbles, they're likely going to be in a position where they have find a new conference for non-football (presumably Big Sky, but who knows. they're pretty crammed). And I could easily see the Big Sky ask for all-or-nothing in membership.

In that scenario, I think the MVC would tell the Dakotas to move along. The benefits they provide in football do not make up for the problems in other sports, IMO. This league will sacrifice the football product for basketball gain.

That's kind of the problem with NDSU in particular. From my impressions, they're a football school looking for membership in a conference where all 10 schools are basketball schools first, even if 5 of them have football. That's a bit of a cultural fit problem without an easy solution. NDSU does appear to be spending more on basketball though. But money doesn't always mean results. We'll see.

As I've written before, the Valley is in a very high-stakes game right now. They need to hold on to the lead draft in college basketball behind the power 6, C7, A-10, and MWC. We're starting to see a clear delineation between those conferences + us + WCC, and everyone else clearly behind. We have to hold onto their lead draft and not become the leaders of the second wave of conferences. Frankly, in a vacuum, NDSU as an addition would bring us closer to the second wave. SDSU might, might, might help, but are probably neutral at best.
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