NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

[Lakesbison]

Ok in a more serious post....it would be a financial disaster for just about everyone except NDSU to move into FBS together. The numbers don't work. No real chance of being relevant in FBS...much better chance of stacking cash through the basketball tournament than the bowl system. MVCF would not have access to any bowls with significant payouts. Buy games would help, but not enough IMO.

It sucks because NDSU has the resources to make the jump, but can't find a dancing partner to do it with.

As for the privates, I bet Bradley would hoodwink its way into the A-10...although there may be space considerations there. Loyola and Drake also fit the mold, depending on their finances.

as a FBS football conference, maybe that enhances the views of MVC on the basketball side perhaps? its a thought.

thanks 4 the discussion A.S. appreciate it and you're right. NDSU cant got big 12/big 10 and the MAC/Mountain West dont want NDSU being top dog in football Day 1.

[Mikovio]

The MVFC can't even make the jump if they wanted to. An FBS conference needs 8 teams, and only 7 MVFC stadiums seat the FBS minimum 15,000:

Illinois State Hancock Stadium 13,391
Indiana State Memorial Stadium 12,764
Missouri State Plaster Sports Complex 17,500
North Dakota Alerus Center 12,283
North Dakota State Fargodome 19,000
Northern Iowa UNI-Dome 16,324
South Dakota DakotaDome 10,000
South Dakota State Dana J. Dykhouse Stadium 19,340
Southern Illinois Saluki Stadium 15,000
Western Illinois Hanson Field 17,168
Youngstown State Stambaugh Stadium 20,630


But let's say ISU Red decides to expand another 2,000 seats to their stadium to meet the minimum. Here's the average attendance for the remaining schools:

MSU averages 10,097
ISU Red averages 10,166
NDSU averages 18,556
UNI averages 12,123
SDSU averages 13,753
SIU averages 7,919
WIU averages 4,910
YSU averages 12,439

Congrats, you're now on the hook for 20 something more scholarships (and any previously partial scholarships are now full). Now, what's your solution to that? Turn your September noncon into four buy games? That means you don't get your first home game until October, and looking at the attendances of these schools, they take a big dive as the games get colder. And are you going to follow the MAC model to get an ESPN contract? That means you play your home games on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Good luck with that. Even ISU Red, as good as they've ever been, can't top 8,000 past mid October, and that's with Saturday games. Attendance dives even further. Where are WIU, SIU and ISU Red coming up with this extra money? The state of Illinois? HA. A $2000 per student FBS tax (given WIU's small enrollment, more like $5k for them)? Are the fans going to be so much more excited about the prospect of playing a Youngstown with 20 more scholarships that attendance jumps by thousands?

The Valley is what it is. These are basketball first schools, smaller schools than you'll find even in the MAC. NDSU is an odd man out. Maybe they can angle for a MAC or Mountain West invite if those conferences lose a school, but the MAC seems content as a bus league and since the NCAA pulled their 12-team-minimum-for-a-title-game rule they might not decide to add another even then.

Edit: Even NDSU football finished in the red last year. FBS is an expensive venture that will probably require basketball cuts at schools like UNI and ISU Red that have pretty good things going, and for WIU to mortgage its campus.

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-a ... 69df0.html

[Lakesbison]

last year was 1st year in 5 that NDSU didn't goto Frisco.

but the article doesn't include the $4.3 Million from NDSU teammakers Booster club.

https://www.facebook.com/ndsuteammakers/photos/a.836973236375989.1073741827.836927166380596/1384473131625994/?type=1&theater

so UND & USD get left out and ISU R & ISU B need to add couple thousand. going FBS would definitely increase attendance!!

[RacerJoeD]

FBS football is a waste. Few ever make any money and some lose a ton.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.al.com/a ... _20_fb.amp

A little dated but I don't believe there is much difference today.

[Mikovio]

I somehow doubt ISU Blue and WIU have these football booster clubs like NDSU.

I forgot to mention, any school serious about FBS football these days will need stipends of at least $3K per athlete. And there's Title IX considerations, so if you give it to your 85 FBS players, you need to give it to 85 female student athletes, for 170 total stipends or $500k minimum.

[PantherU]

FBS FBS football is a waste. Few ever make any money and some lose a ton.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.al.com/a ... _20_fb.amp

A little dated but I don't believe there is much difference today.

FWIW, Old Dominion's AD recently stated the increase in revenue has been higher than the increase in expenses regarding their move.

Obviously there's no real comparison in the MVFC, because ODU only started play about 8 years ago, so take it with a grain of salt. But there's at least one school that's better financially in FBS than FCS.

[Lakesbison]

I somehow doubt ISU Blue and WIU have these football booster clubs like NDSU.

I forgot to mention, any school serious about FBS football these days will need stipends of at least $3K per athlete. And there's Title IX considerations, so if you give it to your 85 FBS players, you need to give it to 85 female student athletes, for 170 total stipends or $500k minimum.

that's COA... NDSU gives every athlete full COA

[TheAsianSensation]

Ok in a more serious post....it would be a financial disaster for just about everyone except NDSU to move into FBS together. The numbers don't work. No real chance of being relevant in FBS...much better chance of stacking cash through the basketball tournament than the bowl system. MVCF would not have access to any bowls with significant payouts. Buy games would help, but not enough IMO.

It sucks because NDSU has the resources to make the jump, but can't find a dancing partner to do it with.

As for the privates, I bet Bradley would hoodwink its way into the A-10...although there may be space considerations there. Loyola and Drake also fit the mold, depending on their finances.

as a FBS football conference, maybe that enhances the views of MVC on the basketball side perhaps? its a thought.

thanks 4 the discussion A.S. appreciate it and you're right. NDSU cant got big 12/big 10 and the MAC/Mountain West dont want NDSU being top dog in football Day 1.

It didn't work for the Fun Belt, so I doubt it would work for the MVC.

In fact, in the Fun Belt, you can argue UT-Arlington as the non-footy member is now a leg up on the rest of that conference. Maybe that analogy is not the best because most programs there are football-first.

Perhaps the better analogy is CUSA, where good basketball programs like UTEP and Memphis have slowly eroded, and UAB almost dropped football.

[Mikovio]

FBS FBS football is a waste. Few ever make any money and some lose a ton.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.al.com/a ... _20_fb.amp

A little dated but I don't believe there is much difference today.

FWIW, Old Dominion's AD recently stated the increase in revenue has been higher than the increase in expenses regarding their move.

Obviously there's no real comparison in the MVFC, because ODU only started play about 8 years ago, so take it with a grain of salt. But there's at least one school that's better financially in FBS than FCS.

Where did he say that?

Old Dominion is an odd case. They were selling out their 20k seat stadium even in FCS, and continue to do so at FBS. For whatever reason they have an exceptionally football rabid fan base. Plus they joined CUSA, which has better bowl ties and a better contract than the MVFC would get were it to move up, and doesn't require them to play on weekdays. Joining CUSA brought much better opponents (Marshall and Southern Miss v. Campbell and Presbyterian), whereas what lakesbison is proposing would keep the opponents the same for MVFC members.

Plus it's in the south. Anybody yearning for MACtion has never spent a November Tuesday freezing their ass off in Dekalb IL or Mt Pleasant MI. The fact it's televised is a good excuse to stay at home, and even to not buy season tickets.

that's COA... NDSU gives every athlete full COA

Unless I'm mistaken NDSU is the only one that already does that.

[jacksfan29]

FBS FBS football is a waste. Few ever make any money and some lose a ton.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.al.com/a ... _20_fb.amp

A little dated but I don't believe there is much difference today.

FWIW, Old Dominion's AD recently stated the increase in revenue has been higher than the increase in expenses regarding their move.

Obviously there's no real comparison in the MVFC, because ODU only started play about 8 years ago, so take it with a grain of salt. But there's at least one school that's better financially in FBS than FCS.

Where did he say that?

Old Dominion is an odd case. They were selling out their 20k seat stadium even in FCS, and continue to do so at FBS. For whatever reason they have an exceptionally football rabid fan base. Plus they joined CUSA, which has better bowl ties and a better contract than the MVFC would get were it to move up, and doesn't require them to play on weekdays. Joining CUSA brought much better opponents (Marshall and Southern Miss v. Campbell and Presbyterian), whereas what lakesbison is proposing would keep the opponents the same for MVFC members.

Plus it's in the south. Anybody yearning for MACtion has never spent a November Tuesday freezing their ass off in Dekalb IL or Mt Pleasant MI. The fact it's televised is a good excuse to stay at home, and even to not buy season tickets.

that's COA... NDSU gives every athlete full COA

Unless I'm mistaken NDSU is the only one that already does that.

Try again, all 4 Dakota schools are doing it. UND have been paying COA for hockey since day one, both UND and USD announced shortly after NDSU decided to offer. SDSU started with basketball only and now do all sports.