NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby isumvc1 » February 8th, 2013, 11:00 am

I'll say it again, there is not a snowball's chance in you know where that the dakota territorial schools are added to the MVC anytime soon.

The president's of the league are not going to sit down and approve schools that will exponentially increase travel costs for every MVC team. Then you're looking at putting all your volleyball, women's basketball, soccer, tennis, swimming, baseball, and golf teams on expensive airline flights to far flung reaches of dang near Canada. Just not gonna happen.

The ONE scenario where it MIGHT happen is if there are massive defections from the MVC, i.e., CU leaves, then Evansville leaves, then WSU, Bradley, and Drake leave. Then yes, I could see where the MVC would more than likely add the dakota territory schools. But unless we have major defections we will add schools that are much more established in basketball.
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby jwa123 » February 8th, 2013, 12:54 pm

"The president's of the league are not going to sit down and approve schools that will exponentially increase travel costs for every MVC team. Then you're looking at putting all your volleyball, women's basketball, soccer, tennis, swimming, baseball, and golf teams on expensive airline flights to far flung reaches of dang near Canada. Just not gonna happen."

There might be more merit to this than you realize. I remember when the Dakotas entered the MVFC, there were some schools (SIU & InSU if I remember correctly) that almost didn't go along with it and finally agreed to their entering only after it was determined and formalized that they would never have to make more than one trip to the Dakotas per football season. Travel costs was the reason.
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby Fargobison » February 8th, 2013, 1:24 pm

Travel is an issue but maybe it isn't quite as big of an issue as it's made out to be. It costs a lot more to send a football team to Fargo vs a basketball team. NDSU doesn't sponsor tennis, men's soccer or swimming. The MVC doesn't sponsor wrestling. Track, cross country and golf teams would likely never come here unless we hosted a championship meet. That leaves softball, women's soccer and baseball as every other year trips and volleyball and basketball as yearly trips. Of course in a 12 team league travel would be lessened a bit more.

I'm not sure what the issue with football is, NDSU football is not like most programs. It sustains itself and feeds money into the athletic department. I think that is a reason why NDSU has always had strong success in athletics across the the board. Most schools spend a ton of money on football and don't come close to meeting expenses.

I'm not saying you should or need to add NDSU like lakes is doing. The Valley would have a lot of options to look at. I remember posting back on valleytalk and nobody would have anything to do with NDSU, now some are at least open to it. I guess that means we are doing some things right up here.
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby isumvc1 » February 8th, 2013, 1:36 pm

jwa123 wrote:"The president's of the league are not going to sit down and approve schools that will exponentially increase travel costs for every MVC team. Then you're looking at putting all your volleyball, women's basketball, soccer, tennis, swimming, baseball, and golf teams on expensive airline flights to far flung reaches of dang near Canada. Just not gonna happen."

There might be more merit to this than you realize. I remember when the Dakotas entered the MVFC, there were some schools (SIU & InSU if I remember correctly) that almost didn't go along with it and finally agreed to their entering only after it was determined and formalized that they would never have to make more than one trip to the Dakotas per football season. Travel costs was the reason.


you are correct, the dakota schools were ONE vote from not being admitted to the MVFC, guess who cast the final vote to approve their admittance, Indiana State. If INS votes "no" there are no dakota schools in the MVFC.

And as far as making only one trip to the dakotas each year for INS, well that didn't last long, our schedule for 2013 is out and we make TWO trips to the dakotas this Fall. I am sure we were one of the schools who specifically required that we would only need to make one trip up there annually. It's quite possible we are getting some financial assistance for the 2nd trip from somewhere?
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby Lakesbison » February 8th, 2013, 1:41 pm

check this out doubters: copyright Gabe~

RPI MENS BASKEBALL THROUGH TODAY 2/8 and ATTENDANCE (last year)
#33 Creighton (16,665)
#37 Wichita (10,391)
#38 Indiana State (5,433)
#68 SDSU (3,320)
#76 NDSU (3,156) -- IN AN ABSOLUTE DUMP
#99 Northern Iowa (4,406)
#109 Oral Roberts (4,494)
#122 Evansville (5135)
#125 Illinois State (4783)
#135 Oakland (3346)
#146 Drake (3965)
#152 Western Illinois (1182)
#157 Bradley (7640)
#194 Southern Illinois (3,299)
#205 Missouri State (7050)
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby jwa123 » February 8th, 2013, 2:11 pm

Fargobison wrote:Travel is an issue but maybe it isn't quite as big of an issue as it's made out to be. It costs a lot more to send a football team to Fargo vs a basketball team. NDSU doesn't sponsor tennis, men's soccer or swimming. The MVC doesn't sponsor wrestling. Track, cross country and golf teams would likely never come here unless we hosted a championship meet. That leaves softball, women's soccer and baseball as every other year trips and volleyball and basketball as yearly trips. Of course in a 12 team league travel would be lessened a bit more.

I'm not sure what the issue with football is, NDSU football is not like most programs. It sustains itself and feeds money into the athletic department. I think that is a reason why NDSU has always had strong success in athletics across the the board. Most schools spend a ton of money on football and don't come close to meeting expenses.

I'm not saying you should or need to add NDSU like lakes is doing. The Valley would have a lot of options to look at. I remember posting back on valleytalk and nobody would have anything to do with NDSU, now some are at least open to it. I guess that means we are doing some things right up here.


Nice post!

I myself am not totally against the Dakotas but I do see where it is an issue for some. As for your comment, "I'm not saying you should or need to add NDSU like lakes is doing," lakes wants in the MAC, MWC and MVC. Kinda hard to play in 3 conferences at the same time.
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby isumvc1 » February 8th, 2013, 2:14 pm

Lakesbison wrote:check this out doubters: copyright Gabe~

RPI MENS BASKEBALL THROUGH TODAY 2/8 and ATTENDANCE (last year)
#33 Creighton (16,665)
#37 Wichita (10,391)
#38 Indiana State (5,433)
#68 SDSU (3,320)
#76 NDSU (3,156) -- IN AN ABSOLUTE DUMP
#99 Northern Iowa (4,406)
#109 Oral Roberts (4,494)
#122 Evansville (5135)
#125 Illinois State (4783)
#135 Oakland (3346)
#146 Drake (3965)
#152 Western Illinois (1182)
#157 Bradley (7640)
#194 Southern Illinois (3,299)
#205 Missouri State (7050)


how about next time you include SOS's from your dakota schools, you all play in a crap conference against crap teams with crappy SOS's. You schedule like MVC schools do and you lose MANY more games, your record is closer to .500 or even below .500 and you two would be Thursday play-in teams in St. Louis every year. Hey wait, maybe THAT would be a good reason to admit them, new Thursday play-in teams for "Drake night" at the 'Lou
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby Mikovio » February 8th, 2013, 2:37 pm

Fargobison wrote:I'm not sure what the issue with football is, NDSU football is not like most programs. It sustains itself and feeds money into the athletic department. I think that is a reason why NDSU has always had strong success in athletics across the the board. Most schools spend a ton of money on football and don't come close to meeting expenses.

The issue with football is that NDSU values its football program over its basketball program. If it turns a profit, great, but where is the profit going? Probably reinvested back into the football program, along with whatever revenue the basketball program churns out.

Case in point: SDSU is raising $28 million for a football indoor practice facility--

http://www.sdstate.edu/news/articles/sdsu-sandford.cfm

Meanwhile the basketball team plays in a dumpy half filled 6k seat arena that's actually had its capacity significantly reduced over the last 20 years.

NDSU pays its football coach $206k, along with a cut of ticket sales and performance bonuses. But its basketball coach would be far and away the lowest paid in the MVC.

Mens basketball coaches salaries
Creighton $1.35M
Wichita $900k
Bradley $700k
UNI $500k
ISU Red $375k
MSU $241k
SIU $300k (but they were paying Lowery $750k IIRC)
Drake $274k
ISU Blue $219k
Evansville $180k
SDSU $152k
NDSU $135k
Last edited by Mikovio on February 8th, 2013, 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby Bluejay09Bear06 » February 8th, 2013, 2:40 pm

Lakesbison wrote:check this out doubters: copyright Gabe~

RPI MENS BASKEBALL THROUGH TODAY 2/8 and ATTENDANCE (last year)
#33 Creighton (16,665)
#37 Wichita (10,391)
#38 Indiana State (5,433)
#68 SDSU (3,320)
#76 NDSU (3,156) -- IN AN ABSOLUTE DUMP
#99 Northern Iowa (4,406)
#109 Oral Roberts (4,494)
#122 Evansville (5135)
#125 Illinois State (4783)
#135 Oakland (3346)
#146 Drake (3965)
#152 Western Illinois (1182)
#157 Bradley (7640)
#194 Southern Illinois (3,299)
#205 Missouri State (7050)


First of all, those attendance figures for the XDSU's are absolutely atrocious. Attendance figures are more relevant from a conference expansion perspective than RPI because RPI numbers can and do fluctuate from year to year. But the fact that both the XDSU's are having their best year ever and are still worse than the Valley's worst is a huge red flag for me. It says the support and the resources just aren't there for long-term, sustainable success. No thanks on the Dakotas. Next?
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Re: NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

Postby Haha » February 8th, 2013, 2:50 pm

Mikovio wrote:Wichita $900k


This is off by quite a bit

Roughly up to around 1.5
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