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TylerDurden wrote:

SubGod22 wrote:Instead, we risk being forgotten in all the excitement that is that championship weekend.

Are you suggesting the MVC would get 1) a good tv time slot or 2) exposure on the final weekend, competing head-to-head with the Big East, Big Ten, ACC, SEC, Pac 10, and Big 12?

For me, I'd rather keep a mid-day Sunday time slot on CBS than play the 'what if' game of moving a successful event to a weekend that wouldn't show much benefit, except for a quicker turnaround for the NCAA Tournament and possibly fan attrition.

I don't buy the idea that we're going to get more teams in by playing the last weekend.

Missouri State was still out in 06 and 07, ISU in 08, Creighton in 09 and WSU in 10. None of those teams were going to get in by moving the date.

Besides that, we've had some nice runs in the tournament once our teams are there. I, for one, think the extra week to keep the legs fresh really benefits the teams good enough to advance.

Agree 100%

The early tournament helps more than it hurts. In 2005, we were considered out by most, but played not only back onto the bubble but into the field as other bubble teams lost. People remember losses from yesterday or the day before, but when it was a week ago (or more) you tend to get a pass.

At the very least, rotate it. You can't tell me it would not draw as well in KC as it does in St. Louis. I think it might even draw better in KC. St. Louis does not embrace it like I think KC would and downtown KC blows downtown St. Louis away. IMO

Jays26 wrote:At the very least, rotate it. You can't tell me it would not draw as well in KC as it does in St. Louis. I think it might even draw better in KC. St. Louis does not embrace it like I think KC would and downtown KC blows downtown St. Louis away. IMO

For the most part, WSU and CU fans are the two who'd like to rotate because KC closer.

I ask this: if WSU and CU consistently send the most people to STL, what is the incentive for anyone to move it closer to them at the risk of drastically reducing attendance from 80% of the league?

The answer is that there is none.

Both fan bases are pretty close to maxed out as far as the conference tournament goes. The reality is that most people aren't going to go to a conference tournament, no matter how cool it is. WSU sends 2-2500 a year - that's 25% of its regular season crowd, which is damn good. Creighton does a bit under that. You aren't going to fill up the Sprint Center with WSU and CU fans, no matter what you'd like to think.

The only boost you might get is the drive-up traffic if your team makes the final (see SIU in STL) and WSU has only been in the final at Arch Madness twice. I think most of us realize that WSU and CU fans are much different than SIU fans in their behavior.

WSU and CU fans show up all the time. SIU has always struggled to fill the building, even when they were the class of the league.

You think BU's old timers are driving to KC? They put about 1000 all-sessions in the seats in STL. They might do 300 in KC. ISU red is the same way, you can cut out 70% of that fan base...ISU blue? Forget about it. SIU? No way. DU, MSU, UNI, UE? Come on.

I haven't even talked about the sweetheart deal the MVC gets from the Scottrade Center - KC can't match that, not without a 20-year history to work with.

You move this thing and watch it deteriorate into a money-sucking, mid-major shootout with attendance hovering around 5000 per.

STL makes the most sense for a number of reasons and is the best choice for the schools and they know it, which is why it doesn't move.

I know a number of Shocker fans who don't go to STL but would KC because it's closer and they enjoy the city better. It's not going to diminish how many from DU, UNI or MSU come. I'm sure there would be more WSU/CU fans there because it's easier to get there and is less demanding. I think we could make up what would be lost from BU and the likes.

If it weren't for the tournament, I'd have no desire to go back to STL. That also makes it easier for me to choose not to go in situations like last year. Maybe attendance does dip a little. But giving it a shot isn't going to kill anything. I'd like to see them give KC a chance.

Drake fans don't travel well, but I could pretty much guarantee you'd get more Drake fans driving to KC than to St Louis (3.5 hours vs 6 hours), plus I think there are a lot more Drake alums in the KC area than the St Louis area.

TylerDurden wrote:

Jays26 wrote:At the very least, rotate it. You can't tell me it would not draw as well in KC as it does in St. Louis. I think it might even draw better in KC. St. Louis does not embrace it like I think KC would and downtown KC blows downtown St. Louis away. IMO

For the most part, WSU and CU fans are the two who'd like to rotate because KC closer.

I ask this: if WSU and CU consistently send the most people to STL, what is the incentive for anyone to move it closer to them at the risk of drastically reducing attendance from 80% of the league?

The answer is that there is none.

Both fan bases are pretty close to maxed out as far as the conference tournament goes. The reality is that most people aren't going to go to a conference tournament, no matter how cool it is. WSU sends 2-2500 a year - that's 25% of its regular season crowd, which is damn good. Creighton does a bit under that. You aren't going to fill up the Sprint Center with WSU and CU fans, no matter what you'd like to think.

The only boost you might get is the drive-up traffic if your team makes the final (see SIU in STL) and WSU has only been in the final at Arch Madness twice. I think most of us realize that WSU and CU fans are much different than SIU fans in their behavior.

WSU and CU fans show up all the time. SIU has always struggled to fill the building, even when they were the class of the league.

You think BU's old timers are driving to KC? They put about 1000 all-sessions in the seats in STL. They might do 300 in KC. ISU red is the same way, you can cut out 70% of that fan base...ISU blue? Forget about it. SIU? No way. DU, MSU, UNI, UE? Come on.

I haven't even talked about the sweetheart deal the MVC gets from the Scottrade Center - KC can't match that, not without a 20-year history to work with.

You move this thing and watch it deteriorate into a money-sucking, mid-major shootout with attendance hovering around 5000 per.

STL makes the most sense for a number of reasons and is the best choice for the schools and they know it, which is why it doesn't move.

If it was a permanent move I MIGHT agree with some of what you have said. But what we are talking about is rotating it. That would lessen the impact of what you were trying to point out.

Shockerfan13 wrote:If it was a permanent move I MIGHT agree with some of what you have said. But what we are talking about is rotating it. That would lessen the impact of what you were trying to point out.

Oddly, that's what I think would cause it's downfall. It's taken 20+ years to build the event in STL.

I just think it's a mistake to rotate it or move it. IMO, it's really difficult these days to build up any sort of cache, which is what I think "Arch Madness" has. I think it has that because of it's lengthy run in STL. If it's altered, all of that goes out the window and you have to start over.

To me, this league is built on tradition and the conference tournament reflects that.

I guess this boils down to me seeing some significant value in the brand of Arch Madness - people know it, they refer to it, it's constant - and I wouldn't want to negatively impact that.

One thing I have been impressed with at the tournament is the amount of major St. Louis based companies that sponsor the event.
Some are national and based in St. Louis while others are regional. I think in todays climate it could be risky changing sites considering sponsor allegiance. It seems the Valley folks have done a great job on that front and moving would mean re-selling the event. It may be a major marketing and sales hassle going back and forth between cities. I am sure those sponsors invite clients regionally that have or could be interested in Valley teams and you probably get more of a mass of that type of sponsor/client interaction in St. Louis than other midwest areas.

Personally I think you would probably draw more "walk up participants" in Omaha, Kansas City, or Indianapolis than St. Louis but the amounts may not equal what the major sponsors of St. Louis bring to the table.

Again from a personal stand point I think it would be fun to go to Indianapolis, Kansas City, Omaha, Peoria, Des Moines, or Chicago for the tournament. Enjoy the local culture, and would bring in some different aspects of home court advantage.

Indianapolis would not be interested in the MVC Tournament, except maybe in the off years when the Big Ten Tournament is in Chicago. Conseco Fieldhouse hosts the Big Ten women's tournament one week (currently the week of Arch Madness, I think), and soon after the Big Ten men's tournament.