What's the next realignment domino to fall?

Discuss the MVC hoops season here.

What happens next?

Wichita St leaves for a better league
40
37%
Missouri St, IllinoisSt, UNI move up to FBS
27
25%
MVC expands
40
37%
 
Total votes : 107

Re: What's the next realignment domino to fall?

Postby glm38 » September 23rd, 2017, 1:07 pm

mvfcfan wrote:So are you saying that we should only play sports that are profitable?

Are you saying that NDSU should drop a sport that has an average attendance of 18,000 (more than 3 times what ILST got per basketball game last season)?

Maybe you and others on this board don't care about FCS football, but there are a lot of us that do.

FCS Football is not the problem. The problem is that the system in basketball is rigged. The big schools get all the at-large bids, all of the money, all of the exposure, etc.

I guess when Illinois State and Missouri State play each other today no one on this board will even care about the game right. Maybe that's the problem. The problem is that you don't care.

Football and men's basketball are by far the two biggest sports in the NCAA. If your school plays Division 1 footbal (even if it is FCS), go support the program and the student athletes that are representing your school. Same with men's basketball.



This forum is primarily about basketball. Therefore most of the posters here are going to care more about basketball than football. I'm a basketball guy but I still follow MSU and valley football somewhat. I'll be watching the MSU ISUr game today. It's hard for MSU fans though because we've been so bad for so long. Would probably feel differently if we had some success like UNI or the Dakotas.

I would argue that the college football system is more "rigged" than basketball. In football you have the two D1 divisions. At least in basketball all D1 programs are together and have an opportunity to play in the same post season tournaments.
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Re: What's the next realignment domino to fall?

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Re: What's the next realignment domino to fall?

Postby Fargobison » September 23rd, 2017, 6:46 pm

Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:
Fargobison wrote:
Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/all-individual-sports-at-ndsu-und-lose-money/article_a9ea7b3f-6826-5348-8cb5-d0eadb369df0.html

This is what happens even when an FCS team wins 5 National championships in a row. Theyre still not profitable.

This doesn't mean the athletic department has been in the red, however. It states in the article that sponsors put them in the black. Still, sad when you're a juggernaut and cant make money.


Football at NDSU is very profitable, same with men's hockey at UND. That article was poorly written, football donations from the booster group alone amount to almost $4 million and of that only $1.2 million is allocated back to football. The football program at NDSU pretty much funds every athletic scholarship at the school.



Wrong. It's not profitable. The boosters are lining the coffers. Still ends up in the same place but the origram itself is s red operating entity.


This is based on what exactly? You might want to study up...Football takes in over $4 million before ticket sales, advertising, student fees and media rights are even put into the equation...

Broken down, Team Makers dues with football tickets account for $3.7 million of the $5.5 million revenue budget for 2017. Dues without tickets account for $600,000, followed by a gaming trust at $350,000 and a Bison Pride Fund at $300,000, the latter of which is another avenue for anybody to donate to the athletic department.

Reserved tailgating space has turned into a money maker at $200,000. Moreover, the Bison Corral—a tailgating tent run by Team Makers that serves food and beverages—nets about $40,000 per season.


http://www.inforum.com/sports/4332556-b ... seen-funds

I will say it again, football at NDSU is very profitable. The program pretty much funds athletic scholarships for the entire athletic department.
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Re: What's the next realignment domino to fall?

Postby Jsnhbe1Birds » September 23rd, 2017, 7:16 pm

Okay if I make $100 and keep $50 for myself but that $50 is spent on things I need and the other $50 goes towards keeping other things afloat then I really have $0. Just because money came in doesn't make it a better profit. Last time I checked -$200,000, which is what the football program makes is not a profit. Making up for it in student fees and other areas doesn't make it a profit either.
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Re: What's the next realignment domino to fall?

Postby Jsnhbe1Birds » September 23rd, 2017, 7:18 pm

For argument sake let's say they do actually make a profit if $500,000k. Big deal. That pays for the assistant coaches.
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Re: What's the next realignment domino to fall?

Postby mvfcfan » September 24th, 2017, 7:23 am

Out of curiosity how much money do Valley teams make on basketball per year? It can't be that much.
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Re: What's the next realignment domino to fall?

Postby Jsnhbe1Birds » September 24th, 2017, 7:35 am

mvfcfan wrote:Out of curiosity how much money do Valley teams make on basketball per year? It can't be that much. And besides that I thought that we pretty much lost money on every sport we played.


You are correct, it's not. They break even. But, the whole point of this conversation is to say at least its possible in basketball. Ask VCU, Butler, etc. It's not possible for FCS football schools unless those FCS football schools become basketball powerhouses, like Villanova. This is why basketball is way more important for non FBS schools and even most FBS schools that aren't P5's.
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Re: What's the next realignment domino to fall?

Postby Mikovio » September 24th, 2017, 8:12 am

Sorry but FCS Football is de facto Division II. I'm not saying you shouldn't support your program if your school has it. It has benefits like game day atmosphere, drawing alums back to campus for tailgating etc. Maybe that justifies the losses. But only NDSU can really claim to make a profit on it (and that's if they jimmy the numbers).

Meanwhile DI basketball has been the ticket to riches for Creighton and Wichita and many other midmajors. Wichita, Gonzaga and Butler all came damn close to being national champions, and not that long ago they were all Valley-level. NDSU even in a dream year couldn't come close to making a case for being a true national champion because everyone's under the assumption they'll get their asses handed to them if they play a schedule with Bama, Clemson, Oklahoma etc, no matter how many times they beat Minnesota or Kansas. In fact, it's highly unlikely they'd even sniff the top 25. You can call yourself "national champions" but you're not fooling anybody. Quite frankly it's just mind boggling how some FCS fans can't see this. I can't tell if they really believe what they say or they're operating on some long term master plan to have McNeese State and EIU take over Florida and Georgia in the national landscape.
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Re: What's the next realignment domino to fall?

Postby glm38 » September 24th, 2017, 10:01 am

Mikovio wrote:Sorry but FCS Football is de facto Division II. I'm not saying you shouldn't support your program if your school has it. It has benefits like game day atmosphere, drawing alums back to campus for tailgating etc. Maybe that justifies the losses. But only NDSU can really claim to make a profit on it (and that's if they jimmy the numbers).

Meanwhile DI basketball has been the ticket to riches for Creighton and Wichita and many other midmajors. Wichita, Gonzaga and Butler all came damn close to being national champions, and not that long ago they were all Valley-level. NDSU even in a dream year couldn't come close to making a case for being a true national champion because everyone's under the assumption they'll get their asses handed to them if they play a schedule with Bama, Clemson, Oklahoma etc, no matter how many times they beat Minnesota or Kansas. In fact, it's highly unlikely they'd even sniff the top 25. You can call yourself "national champions" but you're not fooling anybody. Quite frankly it's just mind boggling how some FCS fans can't see this. I can't tell if they really believe what they say or they're operating on some long term master plan to have McNeese State and EIU take over Florida and Georgia in the national landscape.



I agree with a lot of what you say. However I disagree that an FCS champion like NDSU isn't a true national champion. They are the true national champion AT THEIR LEVEL. And it's still a terrific accomplishment.
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Re: What's the next realignment domino to fall?

Postby Mikovio » September 25th, 2017, 6:33 am

Well yeah it's an impressive accomplishment to stand out over all those teams, but so is winning the DIII championship. MVFC Fan talks about how the Valley gets more FCS bids and ranked teams in football, but same could be said for moving the Valley down to DIII. Think of the bids!
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Re: What's the next realignment domino to fall?

Postby uniftw » September 25th, 2017, 8:37 am

Mikovio wrote:Well yeah it's an impressive accomplishment to stand out over all those teams, but so is winning the DIII championship. MVFC Fan talks about how the Valley gets more FCS bids and ranked teams in football, but same could be said for moving the Valley down to DIII. Think of the bids!

That's....not how it works.

Thanks for continuing to show your ignorance.
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Re: What's the next realignment domino to fall?

Postby mvfcfan » September 25th, 2017, 9:47 am

The Valley is D1 in all sports. The playoffs we compete in for football are the highest level playoff system ran by the NCAA. The CFP is not ran by the NCAA. What would be worse than being FCS is being in a Group 5 conference where you can't compete for anything except some meaningless bowl game at the end of the season.

And yes Mikovio I know that you don't care about FCS football, but your team (Bradley) also doesn't sponsor football. FCS might not be as popular as big time football, but there are a lot of people out there that do follow it and care about it. There are actually a lot of FCS programs out there where more people follow their football team than their basketball team. But there are a lot more schools out there gaining tradition in football than in basketball, mainly because we can compete at the FCS level. It's hard to gain tradition in basketball when you play in a one bid league where you are never going to have a chance to realistically compete. This is why a lot of smaller public schools are choosing to dump a lot of money into football.

The thing that's most laughable on here is some of you acting like we can realistically compete for a national championship in basketball. Like we could, but are we ever going to? Like when was the last time a mid major ever won a national championship in basketball? Like Bradley spends over 3 million a year on basketball and when was the last time they were competing for national championships in basketball? This kind of reminds me of Lloyd in Dumb & Dumber when he says "So you're telling me there's a chance?" In football, even though it's FCS, there actually is a very realistic chance of competing for a national title, especially since the Valley is not a one bid league. More like a 4 bid league in a 24 team playoff. The MVFC has had a team in the title game each of the past 6 seasons. I'd expect to see one this year too.
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Re: What's the next realignment domino to fall?

Postby Jsnhbe1Birds » September 25th, 2017, 10:41 am

The point is they can't even have a chance to compete for the highest level in football. You keep saying but the cfp isn't run by the NCAA. Who gives a s***? The cfp is still higher than the NCAA in football. Stop purposely being stupid. At least in basketball they have a chance. In football there isn't even a chance.
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