What's the next realignment domino to fall?

[uniftw]

You also realize that when Illinois State played NDSU in Frisco, TX that there were over 20000 in attendance right? NDSU might have brought most of the crowd because I know they average around 18000 for their home games, but don't you think they might bring some of that crowd with them in basketball, especially if they were playing in a better conference? Even SDSU is getting 15000 people to show up to their home football games. Northern Iowa on the other hand was also getting around 11000 per game. Illinois State had over 10000 show up for 4 of their 6 home games. Missouri State sucks and they were even getting 12000 per game. Southern Illinois was even drawing pretty good at the beginning of the year. Indiana State is really the only team with attendance issues, but it is FCS football where there is not an attendance requirement. The numbers just don't add up with your saying that FCS football is not important, because for being FCS those are pretty good numbers. There are several MAC schools that can't even do that well.

UNI averages about 13-14k+ most years. The last few have been bad on the results sides so our attendance has suffered.

[Redhawk]

I am so sick of debating the relevance or "drain" of FCS football with the Valley privates.
In reality the MVFC is a much stronger league in the realm of College sports than the MVC.
The major issues with the MVC are departures (Creighton & WSU) under performance
of the privates and diminishing chances for an at large NCAA bid.

The resurgence of FCS football at ISUr and 3 straight FCS playoff appearances has
coincided with higher performance of the Redbird men's basketball program.
During these past three seasons the Birds are 25-1 against Bradley, Drake, Evansville and Loyola.

25-1

[Mikovio]

You also realize that when Illinois State played NDSU in Frisco, TX that there were over 20000 in attendance right? NDSU might have brought most of the crowd because I know they average around 18000 for their home games, but don't you think they might bring some of that crowd with them in basketball, especially if they were playing in a better conference? Even SDSU is getting 15000 people to show up to their home football games. Northern Iowa on the other hand was also getting around 11000 per game. Illinois State had over 10000 show up for 4 of their 6 home games. Missouri State sucks and they were even getting 12000 per game. Southern Illinois was even drawing pretty good at the beginning of the year. Indiana State is really the only team with attendance issues, but it is FCS football where there is not an attendance requirement. The numbers just don't add up with your saying that FCS football is not important, because for being FCS those are pretty good numbers. There are several MAC schools that can't even do that well.

You realize that when NDSU isn't in the FCS title game, that game's attendance is more like 14,423 (2016), 13,027 (2010). So yeah, probably fair to say they carry the bulk of the weight there. Even a crowd of 20k is among the worst bowl attendances, and most bowls are yawn affairs by the fans of their own teams because those teams generally went 6-6 or 7-5.

NDSU basketball averages 4,500. Not bad really. But the money from that program obviously isn't being reinvested back into basketball, given their poor coaching salaries and overall budget. That's why they're a poor addition for basketball.

The MAC? The MAC definitely has programs that should move down. And the MAC sold its fans out years ago by holding games on Tuesdays and Wednesdays in exchange for a few million dollars from ESPN, killing attendance. NIU has only 2 Saturday home games this year. Try to sell those season tickets.

I am so sick of debating the relevance or "drain" of FCS football with the Valley privates.
In reality the MVFC is a much stronger league in the realm of College sports than the MVC.
The major issues with the MVC are departures (Creighton & WSU) under performance
of the privates and diminishing chances for an at large NCAA bid.

The resurgence of FCS football at ISUr and 3 straight FCS playoff appearances has
coincided with higher performance of the Redbird men's basketball program.
During these past three seasons the Birds are 25-1 against Bradley, Drake, Evansville and Loyola.

25-1

Correlation is not causation. And a 3 year sample size? Seriously?

So you think FCS football success helps basketball somehow? Let's take a look at the good FCS programs.

FCS champ James Madison just finished 10-23 in basketball, and has one NCAA tournament since 1994.

FCS runner up Youngstown State, a traditional FCS powerhouse, is awful at basketball.

Marshall was dominant in FCS for years. Shitty basketball.

Ditto Appalachian State, another former FCS powerhouse which moved up.

Ditto Georgia Southern.

The evidence is overwhelming that there is no causal relationship between FCS football success and NCAA mens basketball success.

And there should be no question which bid is worth more.

A win in the NCAA mens basketball tournament is worth millions of dollars.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith ... 751e4e32b0

Whereas an FCS playoff game can actually COST SCHOOLS MONEY. James Madison lost $130,000 on a home FCS playoff game in 2014.

http://www.richmond.com/sports/college/ ... a8ae4.html

Money spent on FCS is a WASTE. No getting around it. Any success FCS schools have in mens basketball is IN SPITE OF, not BECAUSE OF, their FCS. And, as I said, public budgets were the reason why we don't have Murray State. That's actual causation.

[Redhawk]

Mikovio:

I never said there was any correlation between FCS football and basketball success...
that is actually the argument that you and the private school brethren always make when the MVC
wants to expand. As with NDSU and SDSU it all comes back to the fact that they spend more on football
than basketball. So what...UNI and ISUr do too and they have been very successful in the Valley.

Also if you want me to go back longer than 3 years then how about this....ISUr has the HIGHEST
winning percentage both in conference and for all games for current Valley members ( and that would
include WSU too!)

The privates need to stop whining about FCS football and blocking good conference candidates like
Murray St, NDSU and SDSU.

25-1

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

WI should they would add four. NDSU, SDSU, Murray State, and Grand Canyon.

[Redhawk]

WI should they would add four. NDSU, SDSU, Murray State, and Grand Canyon.

Please stop trying to make Grand Canyon a thing...It's not going to happen!

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

WI should they would add four. NDSU, SDSU, Murray State, and Grand Canyon.

Please stop trying to make Grand Canyon a thing...It's not going to happen!

Will I happen? 99%, no. Will I continue to lobby for it? Of course. Murray State is obviously #1. There is a legitimate argument for the Dakotas. But, you can't just add one. Minimum of two. So, if both Dakotas are added then Murray State is left out. And, you can't add three, so a fourth would be needed. Besides for the Dakotas and Murray State what Midwestern team is actually a goOdorizzi enough program to add? Milwaukee? Oral Roberts? Omaha? SEMO? Western? SIU-E? UIC? Fort Wayne? NKU? Please. I laugh at every single mention of any of those teams except NKU, which has had some success but not a lot of time in D1 so I cannot determine on them.

[Redhawk]

WI should they would add four. NDSU, SDSU, Murray State, and Grand Canyon.

Please stop trying to make Grand Canyon a thing...It's not going to happen!

Will I happen? 99%, no. Will I continue to lobby for it? Of course. Murray State is obviously #1. There is a legitimate argument for the Dakotas. But, you can't just add one. Minimum of two. So, if both Dakotas are added then Murray State is left out. And, you can't add three, so a fourth would be needed. Besides for the Dakotas and Murray State what Midwestern team is actually a goOdorizzi enough program to add? Milwaukee? Oral Roberts? Omaha? SEMO? Western? SIU-E? UIC? Fort Wayne? NKU? Please. I laugh at every single mention of any of those teams except NKU, which has had some success but not a lot of time in D1 so I cannot determine on them.

I admire your persistence...but if you are going to push for a team that is an extreme long shot
Saint Louis would be more worthwhile. There are budget and expansion factors in play that could
actually make that a more viable option down the road a bit.

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

The problem I have with St. Louis is the success of their program. They have mostly been a doormat team, including last season, in every conference except for like one out of every ten years. They did have a string of success under majerus but he died and his replacement, jim crews, coached majerus' players well but he couldn't recruit and they are again a doormat. 10-21 in the A-10 last season and they are pinning their hopes to Travis ford. Hope it works but I'm skeptical.

[uniftw]

Fine, take the all sports trophy out of it - but no one is forcing you to charge 60K for tuition...remember that.

Let's look at mens basketball only finishes the last decade or so for existing MVC members

Average finish the last 11 years (I wanted to go 10 but I forgot to put this past year in with so when I added that in it became 11...oh well....)

UNI - 3.4
ISUR - 4.1
MSU - 6.1
SIU - 6.1
ISUB - 6.3
UE - 6.4
LUC - 6.5
BU - 7.3
D+ - 7.5

MSU and SIU tied to the decimal point because they have the exact same place totals - which really shows the gaps

UNI - 38
ISUR - 46
MSU - 68
SIU - 68
ISUB - 70
UE - 71
LUC - 26
BU - 81
D+ - 83


Break that down per school and their finish (based on Arch Madness seeding) most recent year first and 06/07 the oldest year

UNI:
3 5 2 3 3 5 4 1 1 6 5
ISUR:
1 3 3 5 6 4 9 3 3 2 7
MSU:
6 7 8 4 9 6 1 7 10 7 3
SIU:
4 4 9 6 10 9 8 9 5 3 1
ISUB:
9 6 4 2 5 8 3 6 9 8 10
UE:
8 2 5 9 4 3 6 10 6 10 8
LUC:
5 8 6 7 - - - - - - -
BU:
7 9 10 10 7 10 10 5 4 5 4
D+:
10 10 7 8 8 7 7 8 8 1 9

By my count that is 27 of the 44 potential PIG spots belonging to private schools - one of whom has only been around 4 of those 11 seasons. Wichita State had 2 PIG appearances over that time. So that's 29 of the 44 PIG spots going to private or non-football schools. That's TWO THIRDS of the PIG spots belonging to less than half of the conference.

So...tell me again how FCS football is dragging the public schools down.