Wichita State - in or out?

[Play Angry]

I bet they play in the PIG.

Definitely possible - I think we'll be a 10 seed that avoids Dayton, but it wouldn't stun me at all if that is where we are sent.

I haven't seen much discussion on how the week's results have affected UNI's seeding - it seems like all of the non-P5 #1 seeds who have lost in their conference tournaments will really help the Panthers on Sunday. If projections of conference tournament winners had held a week ago (they never do), UNI might have been as low as a 14 seed (probably a high 13). Now it looks like they have a good shot at moving up to a 12. They've actually had a pretty awesome week.

[Redbirdgrad]

Been challenged with coming up with 36 current at-large teams that have a better resume than Wichita's.

I'll just go in order from the bubble watch from ESPN:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/bubblewatch

An * means I'm assuming they're going to win their conference tourney. Any further upsets only HURT the projection for Wichita.

LOCKS:
*Dayton
1- St. Joseph's
*Virginia
2-Miami
3-North Carolina
4-Duke
5-Notre Dame
*Kansas
6-Oklahoma
7-West Virginia
8-Iowa State
9-Texas
10-Baylor
11-Texas Tech
*Villanova
12-Xavier
13-Seton Hall
14-Providence
15-Butler
*Maryland
16-Michigan State
17-Purdue
18-Indiana
19-Iowa
20-Wisconsin
*Oregon
21-Utah
22-California
23-Arizona
24-Colorado
25-USC
*Kentucky
26-Texas A&M

So this shows that just with ESPN locks (which almost everyone agrees with), 26 of the 36 at large spots are already taken. There only needs to be 10 better resume's on here than Wichita's for them to be left out.

So lets look at the "Work Left to Do" categories:

27-Cincinnati
28-Tulsa (win over Wichita State, better SOS)
Connecticut - I'd say Wichita's resume is better right now
*Temple - assuming they win the tourney
29-VCU
30-St Bonaventure
31-Pitt
Syracuse - I'd hope they leave Syracuse out. Crazier things have happened
32-Michigan - just sealed their bid
33-San Diego State - which is worth more, a Valley title, or a Mountain West title?
34-Oregon State
35-South Carolina
36-Vanderbilt
St. Mary's
UALR
Valparaiso
Monmouth


There are 36 teams, in my opinion, who boast a resume either better than Wichita's, or on par and will cause Wichita to sweat on Selection Sunday. I've also included teams that I don't believe have a better chance that Wichita, but there's buzz around them so they're in there.

For the last time... I hope they're in. But I just have a feeling they played their way out last weekend. Hope I'm wrong.

[Redbirdgrad]

All caps is commonly perceived on the interwebz as yelling.

Guess I don't get around the "interwebz" too often. I apologize for the misinterpretation. Would bold or italics have worked better for you guys? It's clear my 4 or 5 words of capitalization was drawing attention to a point, and not "yelling" in any way. But I guess you see what you want to see...

So much anger. Wow. Kansans are fundamentally less intelligent than residents of other states? Unnecessary insults do nothing to bolster an argument and make the poster look silly and immature. I am sure you are not a silly or immature person, but that image is the one you portray when you make those kind of statements. Golden rule and all that good stuff.

Again with the "angry" theme. I know that's your rally cry over at Wichita but not everyone is that way. I never implied anyone from Wichita was less intelligent, just that your viewpoint is skewed as you're the subject of the current discussion, that's all. It's hard to see the forest from among the trees. The only people who think I'm "silly" or "immature" are those whom take different viewpoints personally and believe they can't exist. It's ok for there to be another side to the coin.

Thanks for clarifying.

No problem!

When your position is (1) you do not believe something should happen, (2) but you believe that it will happen, and (3) you want it to happen, and you focus nearly all of your attention on (1) above while mixed with personal insults and blanket attacks, your argument will almost always be poorly understood.

My attention has always been on equal sides of the discussion. I both want the Shockers to get in, yet I don't think they will. It's really, really not that hard of a concept to grasp, yet here we are discussing it yet again for some unknown reason.

Indicates that you are acting like your team's equivalent of the poster on here who you revile so completely. That is really disappointing and will keep folks from taking you seriously.

You can take me however you want, but I wont be called out on a message board for having a differing viewpoint. Not going to happen. I'm sorry I disappoint you my friend. Maybe not take things so seriously?!?

I'm sorry you feel that way. Venting your intense anger here probably isn't the most productive resolution. Substance is always welcome.

Again with the angry theme... Your coach really has rubbed off on you guys, which is why it's impossible to have a conversation with you.

Thanks. I am completely fine with opposing viewpoints and often find them informative.

Here's the thing... I don't think you are. If so, this entire exchange would not have existed.

Shocker fans have voiced repeatedly and unsurprisingly why they believe the Shockers should and will be in, which lines up with the consensus opinion. However, since you do agree that the Shockers are getting in, and you want them to get, it is an impressive use of one's energy to make 10+ posts in a single thread (literally, a tenth of your entire posting history on this board) arguing that you don't believe they should be in (although, as you have acknowledged, you believe they will get in...talk about nuance, huh?). Certainly you have that right, though, and this is an MVC basketball board so I'd venture that most of us are a little weird for posting on here to begin with.

I'd venture to say that most fans of most programs on the bubble would give reasons on why they should be in as well. Shocker fans aren't alone in that regard. The title of this thread literaly says "in or out". This is where we go to discuss that, and "out" is one of those options, is it not? Would it have been better to Shocker nation if the title was "Wichita State - in or (please don't post any other viewpoint because we've already decided we're in and that's the consensus of the rest of the nation so your viewpoint is void anyways)" Would that have been more appropriate?

Thank you! It should be a fun Tournament.

No problem. It should be a fun one! Like I said, I have an auction on Monday I'm hoping to snag you guys in as I think you can make me some money. Even though I think your resume isn't worthy, I think you can win a couple games in the tournament due to senior leadership, etc.

[Play Angry]

I both want the Shockers to get in, yet I don't think they will. It's really, really not that hard of a concept to grasp, yet here we are discussing it yet again for some unknown reason.

Ohhh, I think this is the root of the misunderstanding. I thought I had it pegged correctly earlier, but you have changed your mind again. Earlier today you said:

That being said I absolutely hope you're in and will be rooting for you guys when your name is called, as I expect it to be.

...but just now, again, you said...

I both want the Shockers to get in, yet I don't think they will. It's really, really not that hard of a concept to grasp, yet here we are discussing it yet again for some unknown reason.

It might not be that Kansans are unable to grasp the consistency of your argument. I think it is that your argument keeps changing and you are claiming it does not. Hence the confusion.

I applaud your progress on beginning to post more substance and less vitriol. I know that we both hope you are 100% wrong on Sunday - it will be fun to see which one of us is 100% right!

[Redbirdgrad]

I see where the confusion lies as well. I apologize my friend, I've misspoke in a previous post.

I want the Shockers to get in.
I don't think their resume is worthy.
However I feel they will get in due to name recognition among other things.

[Play Angry]

Here's to us both being right on the ultimate result then!

[Redbirdgrad]

Amen to that.

Need as many in the dance as possible. Really need to get the Valley back to multiple bids a year. Consistent good showings in the dance is one way to do that.

[Play Angry]

Now that we've clarified that Redbirdgrad has believed the Shockers are in the field all along despite some understandable confusion, does anyone think they're still out? Might be interesting to hear a legit case against from someone who is holding out versus the consensus.

New Mexico State leading big in the semis of the WAC Tournament - as mentioned earlier, it would be a nice perk for WSU if the Aggies can win the autobid since that would add another Top 100 win over a tournament team to the resume.

[PurpleAcesFootball]

As weird as it sounds, I thought WSU was out last Saturday. However, after looking at their profile over the last few days, I think they are back in. To be clear: I THINK THEY ARE IN.

In some ways the field came back to them: Vandy, Clemson, Syracuse, etc. And by the looks of it, Tulsa may be joining that list.

I don't blame Redbirdgrad for causing confusion. IMO, there seems to be a pool of about 18-20 teams for 10 spots, the "work left to do" group above. You could make a case for all of them to be in or out depending on your criteria.

Since this seems to be an active postseason thread I thought I'd throw in this article I found as well:
http://www.reviewjournal.com/ron-kantowski/vegas-16-basketball-tournament-needs-few-good-teams

The Vegas 16 asks teams to fork over $50,000 to play- although flights to Vegas and lodging is covered. Wow.

[Redbirdgrad]

To be clear: I THINK THEY ARE IN.
.

Hey, no shouting around here... Didn't you realize we're in a library?

When I did the exercise above, trying to find at 36 at larges, I kept telling myself as I went past 30 how bad the bubble is this year. I guess that's where my internal conflict comes in. Wichitas resume screams NIT to me, but there is merit to anyone who includes them because the bubble is so weak.

Probably need to get this tourney back to 64 before even thinking about expanding it again. Not saying that because Wichita is taking advantage of a weak bubble, just that the quality of basketball in the play-ins this year may be at the lowest level we've seen since the move to 68.