Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 3rd Place

Discuss the MVC hoops season here.

Who will finish in 3rd place during the 2016-17 MVC men's basketball season?

Poll ended at October 13th, 2016, 7:54 am

Illinois State
26
42%
Northern Iowa
28
45%
Wichita State
8
13%
 
Total votes : 62

Re: Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 3rd Place

Postby Cdizzle » October 13th, 2016, 10:04 am

BirdsEyeView wrote:
Cdizzle wrote:
BirdsEyeView wrote:Intangibles from a pg are just as important.

FVV had them - big time

I agree on both points. But I don't see how it's particularly relevant when comparing Frankamp to Lee.



It's not really, just showing that going from FVV to Frankamp or whomever at point is more than just looking into a stat book and comparing his stats to other point guards in the league (ie - Lee).

A point guard must have leadership qualities, toughness qualities, basketball IQ and an overall competitiveness that spills over to their teammates.

FVV had all of those and it made his team way better (regardless of stats). Your Play Angry mantra was personified (not sure if that's the right word?) by FVV.

Do you have a replacement for those qualities beyond your "big time talent" players like McDuffie, Shamet, etc.? Only time will tell.

That would be fine. Except Lee hasn't exactly shown those qualities in a way that translated into team success for ISUr. So really, the stats are pretty much what we have to go on. Just throwing out that Lee is better than a new guy because the new guy is not FVV is a pretty weak argument.
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Re: Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 3rd Place

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Re: Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 3rd Place

Postby BirdsEyeView » October 13th, 2016, 10:33 am

Cdizzle wrote:
BirdsEyeView wrote:
It's not really, just showing that going from FVV to Frankamp or whomever at point is more than just looking into a stat book and comparing his stats to other point guards in the league (ie - Lee).

A point guard must have leadership qualities, toughness qualities, basketball IQ and an overall competitiveness that spills over to their teammates.

FVV had all of those and it made his team way better (regardless of stats). Your Play Angry mantra was personified (not sure if that's the right word?) by FVV.

Do you have a replacement for those qualities beyond your "big time talent" players like McDuffie, Shamet, etc.? Only time will tell.

That would be fine. Except Lee hasn't exactly shown those qualities in a way that translated into team success for ISUr. So really, the stats are pretty much what we have to go on. Just throwing out that Lee is better than a new guy because the new guy is not FVV is a pretty weak argument.



I agree, but most of my argument above was to show your concern at WSU (not ISUr with Lee). A devil's advocate to the WSU rainbows and butterflies point of view for this coming season.

I completely get the issues of ISUr....inconsistency! But, I wasn't referencing any of that above, except that stats don't show the true "losses" reflected from FVV graduating.
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Re: Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 3rd Place

Postby Old School MVC » October 13th, 2016, 1:52 pm

I cannot figure out why anyone thinks Wichita will not finish 1st this year. I am not a WSU guy, as a matter of fact, I Hate WSU! But with that said, they are clearly the team to beat. Everyone talks about Baker and FVV, but let’s remember, they were good, but not as good as everyone builds them up to be. They both went undrafted. If my math is right, that would put them outside the top 50 in the nation. I would actually put them in the top 100, but not top 50. THEY ARE REPLACEABLE!!! If you look at their recruiting classes, they have recruited top 100 guys. Is there anything else that happened to have ISUr gain 5 games or UNI gain 6 games on the Shockers? Quick answer NO. ISUr still way too undisciplined, and UNI just not enough talent. Plain and simple, the question on this topic is who will get 2nd/3rd…we should know who will get 1st.
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Re: Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 3rd Place

Postby Cdizzle » October 13th, 2016, 1:56 pm

Old School MVC wrote:I cannot figure out why anyone thinks Wichita will not finish 1st this year. I am not a WSU guy, as a matter of fact, I Hate WSU! But with that said, they are clearly the team to beat. Everyone talks about Baker and FVV, but let’s remember, they were good, but not as good as everyone builds them up to be. They both went undrafted. If my math is right, that would put them outside the top 50 in the nation. I would actually put them in the top 100, but not top 50. THEY ARE REPLACEABLE!!! If you look at their recruiting classes, they have recruited top 100 guys. Is there anything else that happened to have ISUr gain 5 games or UNI gain 6 games on the Shockers? Quick answer NO. ISUr still way too undisciplined, and UNI just not enough talent. Plain and simple, the question on this topic is who will get 2nd/3rd…we should know who will get 1st.

Going in the NBA draft has nothing to do with being a Top 50 collegiate player.

I think it makes sense that WSU is the favorite going in to this year, but it is certainly up for much more reasonable discussion (as has been happening) this year.
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Re: Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 3rd Place

Postby BirdsEyeView » October 13th, 2016, 2:46 pm

At no point did I ever say WSU will not win the conference this year.

Your argument about draft position impacting how good they really are for Baker/FVV is a complete joke and holds no merit.
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Re: Official 2016-17 MVCfans.com Prediction - 3rd Place

Postby uniftw » October 27th, 2016, 8:46 am

Blers wrote:Given all they hype surrounding McCloud is size really the only thing that kept him being so under recruited? And does he have the body to stay healthy for a season in the Valley yet? I feel like expectations for him as a true freshmen point guard are absurdly high from some. Especially when factored in that he's been practicing against a lot of other relatively inexperienced guards on UNI's roster (though I've read he's performed well in local summer leagues; idk how much defense is played there though).

I'm sure he's got a great offensive game and that he'll be a big time player come his sophomore/junior year; but it seems the talk for him is HUGE. I suppose one could attribute him being under the radar to playing in Germantown, Wisconsin. Living in Chicago there's always hype around at least 2-3 short guards at any given time, and it usually doesn't hurt their interest too much (see: Marcus Lovett, Charlie Moore, Evan Gilyard).

That said I do love what UNI has. They have some great big men and I love what Jeremy Morgan brings. From the two games against Loyola I didn't see much out of Lohaus, but that's a small sample size and he's had another year. If he and McCloud live up to the hype some have put out for him UNI will be a force. I think with more resources Jacobson could run this league, UNI got a steal with him (and even more so keeping him!).

That all said i think if there's going to be a year Illinois State makes it's run, it's gotta be now. So I have UNI 3, but I would never sleep on the panthers.
Size was the biggest thing.

Here is a photo he posted the other day comparing him today and where he was one year ago - https://twitter.com/juwanmccloud/status ... 0026396673 - i had to link to the tweet given this sites complete inability to actually post photos.

Here's an in game photo from last season http://germantownhoops.org/gt/wp-conten ... slide3.jpg


Safe to say he learned what a weight room is.
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