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WSU players won't put up the stats for POY. They've struggled to put up good lines against good competition, and they only get to play 19 minutes against crappy competition.

I'd have to say Paris Lee or Mikyle Mcintosh at this point. Given WSU depth and ISU's relative lack of it they both have more impact on their teams. I'd be curious to hear a Redbirds fans thoughts on the two. To me I think Paris Lee would be a bigger loss for them at this point in the season.

Blers wrote:I'd have to say Paris Lee or Mikyle Mcintosh at this point. Given WSU depth and ISU's relative lack of it they both have more impact on their teams. I'd be curious to hear a Redbirds fans thoughts on the two. To me I think Paris Lee would be a bigger loss for them at this point in the season.

Yeah. My head and eyes say McIntosh. The advanced metrics surprise me a bit and say Lee. I think Lee is a really good PG, but McIntosh is the matchup problem that people can't handle.

Cdizzle wrote:

Blers wrote:I'd have to say Paris Lee or Mikyle Mcintosh at this point. Given WSU depth and ISU's relative lack of it they both have more impact on their teams. I'd be curious to hear a Redbirds fans thoughts on the two. To me I think Paris Lee would be a bigger loss for them at this point in the season.

Yeah. My head and eyes say McIntosh. The advanced metrics surprise me a bit and say Lee. I think Lee is a really good PG, but McIntosh is the matchup problem that people can't handle.

I would say that Lee is more important to our team but McIntosh is more talented.

Lee may not put up the gaudy numbers (although his 3 pt % is exceptional), he does a lot of little things that makes that team work. He would be my pick at this time.

Whenever I analyze the Birds, Lee comes out on top in a lot of areas.

That said, everyone above me is exactly right. MM is more gifted, but Lee is more important and puts up the better lines.

MM has regressed a tad offensively as I think they've reigned him in from being a bull in a china shop and getting 2 offensive fouls per game due to that. It's a good move for him, because he's been great defensively for us.

The problem with any of the Birds for POY right now is that they have different people who step up every night. While that's a good thing in terms of W's... nobody actually stands out from the crowd.

Finally STARTING to have a problem Wichita has had for a while...

I guess my point was that I think McIntosh might be ISU's most important player because of the mismatch he creates, for lots of teams including outside the Valley. Lee is clearly very good and advanced stats even favor him which I usually like a lot, but he isn't creating a mismatch. He might be too good for your best defender, but it isn't because of some significant size or athleticism advantage that you had no chance to overcome. Some teams have guys that can match up OK with McIntosh. Not many have guys that can match up with McIntosh and Hawkins at the same time. Which creates problems teams have to scheme against.

Lee shooting the cover off the ball is helping him a lot this year. He still turns the ball over a lot for a true PG for my taste, but ISU is more of a high-risk high-reward oriented team anyway.

Cdizzle wrote:I guess my point was that I think McIntosh might be ISU's most important player because of the mismatch he creates, for lots of teams including outside the Valley. Lee is clearly very good and advanced stats even favor him which I usually like a lot, but he isn't creating a mismatch. He might be too good for your best defender, but it isn't because of some significant size or athleticism advantage that you had no chance to overcome. Some teams have guys that can match up OK with McIntosh. Not many have guys that can match up with McIntosh and Hawkins at the same time. Which creates problems teams have to scheme against.

Lee shooting the cover off the ball is helping him a lot this year. He still turns the ball over a lot for a true PG for my taste, but ISU is more of a high-risk high-reward oriented team anyway.

Yep, you nailed it, and I agree 100%.

Paris has been turning it over quite a bit actually, which is actually pretty worrisome when we get into the heart of the Valley schedule.

MM does create matchup problems, but we need to utilize that similar to what we just did against the Trees. Until this point, he's been taking a bunch of mid rangers and 3's for his points, and hasn't been as aggressive as he was this last weekend. I hope we exploit the mismatches more, but we'll see. We're pretty balanced and don't force much offense, which is also why that matchup isn't as utilized.

Redbirdgrad wrote:The problem with any of the Birds for POY right now is that they have different people who step up every night. While that's a good thing in terms of W's... nobody actually stands out from the crowd.

Finally STARTING to have a problem Wichita has had for a while...

I agree that one of the three steps up each game, so nobody stands out.

The last statement, however, may be a one season "problem" for us. Lee is gone. Hawkins is gone. McIntosh should be back. We don't have any big time players coming in unless Yarbrough or Clarence becomes a stud. Fayne is the only one on our current roster that looks like they might reach that level.

Wichita recruits circles around everyone else. Finally, we're all seeing that come to fruition once their reliance on Baker/FVV ended.

We aren't recruiting to that level to have too many studs on our roster...nobody in the MVC is.

Absolutely right.

I wasn't talking about the recruits being in the same ballpark just that the production balance is hurting individual POY candidates.

You could collectively suck, but have the same balance and not have a POY candidate as well.