November 14th - 18th MVC games

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Re: November 14th - 18th MVC games

Postby specialsauce » November 18th, 2016, 9:20 pm

isumvc1 wrote:
specialsauce wrote:
AceMatt wrote:UNI can probably crack the top 25 with a win against Xavier


Easy.


Even with a split with Xavier in the next 2 games they should be ranked


Even with poll mechanics issues aside, a win over a bad Arizona State team, a decent to mediocre team Oklahoma team in OT, and a win over a less-than-good looking Xavier team would not get them ranked. They'll get significant votes but they won't be ranked.

Regardless, they have represented the Valley well in Orlando.
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Re: November 14th - 18th MVC games

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Re: November 14th - 18th MVC games

Postby shockalot » November 18th, 2016, 10:04 pm

Enough of the overwrought descriptions of the teams UNI has now beaten. Arizona State is not a bad team. They are currently ranked 73 by Kenpom, that isn't bad it is no worse than mediocre. They're no doubt better than at least 6 MVC teams. Oklahoma is currently ranked by Kenpom at 31, not mediocre. Sure, it remains to be seen how good these teams are, but the current metrics are at least reasoned, and not emotionally tainted descriptors used to devalue another MVC teams victories.
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Re: November 14th - 18th MVC games

Postby ptownbraves » November 18th, 2016, 10:07 pm

Bradley wins 84 - 78 over SEMO. The biggest thing I saw that has lacked recently was the emergence of an actual offense. Two newcomers, Darrell Brown (freshman PG) and JoJo McGlaston (wing and Utah St. transfer) allowed Bradley to set a fast tempo. As a Bradley fan, this was an encouraging sign after the Delaware debacle. Wardle is still figuring out this young team. They will look terrible at times, but the way this team played tonight, there is hope in Peoria.
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Re: November 14th - 18th MVC games

Postby tribecalledquest » November 18th, 2016, 10:38 pm

ptownbraves wrote:Bradley wins 84 - 78 over SEMO. The biggest thing I saw that has lacked recently was the emergence of an actual offense. Two newcomers, Darrell Brown (freshman PG) and JoJo McGlaston (wing and Utah St. transfer) allowed Bradley to set a fast tempo. As a Bradley fan, this was an encouraging sign after the Delaware debacle. Wardle is still figuring out this young team. They will look terrible at times, but the way this team played tonight, there is hope in Peoria.


The hope is Coach Wardle figures out who to play, and when.

Luuk van Bree hasn't gotten on track yet this season but I think he will. SEMO really was in his jock tonight and they weren't going to let him get any clean looks. I think BU FINALLY has a PG in Darrell Brown. More of a score first guy and will turn it over but he has a future. JoJo McGlaston has been a God send as others have struggled.

The team certainly played faster tonight as promised. However that doesn't mean they get to take off on the defensive end. That said, it's alot easier to play faster when you rebound the basketball.

Any win over a D1 team is a good win right now.
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Re: November 14th - 18th MVC games

Postby specialsauce » November 18th, 2016, 11:48 pm

shockalot wrote:Enough of the overwrought descriptions of the teams UNI has now beaten. Arizona State is not a bad team. They are currently ranked 73 by Kenpom, that isn't bad it is no worse than mediocre. They're no doubt better than at least 6 MVC teams. Oklahoma is currently ranked by Kenpom at 31, not mediocre. Sure, it remains to be seen how good these teams are, but the current metrics are at least reasoned, and not emotionally tainted descriptors used to devalue another MVC teams victories.


Kenpom and really any other ranking system is inherently skewed at this point in the season.

By you own rationale and thinking, UNI is no better than the 65th best team right now. Not even getting votes then?
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Re: November 14th - 18th MVC games

Postby Wufan » November 19th, 2016, 7:48 am

Congrats to Bradley and especially UNI for the monster come back! Go get some Xavier!
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Re: November 14th - 18th MVC games

Postby shockalot » November 19th, 2016, 9:38 am

Kenpom and really any other ranking system is inherently skewed at this point in the season.

By you own rationale and thinking, UNI is no better than the 65th best team right now. Not even getting votes then?[/quote]

Inherently "skewed" meaning based on currently objective basketball data, as opposed to off the cuff labeling by a biased perspective. I was indicating that no team can be yet be determined with a high level of accuracy as to just how good it is in comparison to others unless they've played each other to this point in the season without more outcome data, including UNI, duh. But Kenpom type ranking is the best objective indicators available and gets better as more games are played.
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Re: November 14th - 18th MVC games

Postby SubGod22 » November 19th, 2016, 11:33 am

No ranking system means anything at this point as there isn't enough data to really paint a picture. With that said, the ASU win is fine, but if they're supposed to finish as poorly as predicted in the PAC, then it's just an OK win that UNI should have. Oklahoma on the other hand should be a pretty good team and that will be a good victory. They aren't near as good as they were last year when they had Buddy, but they're still probably a top 40 type of team. Definitely a good win. Isn't Xavier currently in the Top 25? I know that doesn't mean everything, but it does say that beating them will be another good win.

When it comes to the computer numbers, no matter how bad ASU is, they will be propped up because of the PAC. That's beneficial to UNI.
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Re: November 14th - 18th MVC games

Postby Rollbird5 » November 19th, 2016, 11:43 am

SubGod22 wrote:No ranking system means anything at this point as there isn't enough data to really paint a picture. With that said, the ASU win is fine, but if they're supposed to finish as poorly as predicted in the PAC, then it's just an OK win that UNI should have. Oklahoma on the other hand should be a pretty good team and that will be a good victory. They aren't near as good as they were last year when they had Buddy, but they're still probably a top 40 type of team. Definitely a good win. Isn't Xavier currently in the Top 25? I know that doesn't mean everything, but it does say that beating them will be another good win.

When it comes to the computer numbers, no matter how bad ASU is, they will be propped up because of the PAC. That's beneficial to UNI.

Xavier is ranked 11th I believe
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Re: November 14th - 18th MVC games

Postby Khan4Cats » November 19th, 2016, 11:49 am

SubGod22 wrote:No ranking system means anything at this point as there isn't enough data to really paint a picture. With that said, the ASU win is fine, but if they're supposed to finish as poorly as predicted in the PAC, then it's just an OK win that UNI should have. Oklahoma on the other hand should be a pretty good team and that will be a good victory. They aren't near as good as they were last year when they had Buddy, but they're still probably a top 40 type of team. Definitely a good win. Isn't Xavier currently in the Top 25? I know that doesn't mean everything, but it does say that beating them will be another good win.

When it comes to the computer numbers, no matter how bad ASU is, they will be propped up because of the PAC. That's beneficial to UNI.


This. I believe KenPom at this point still includes some of last year (or is that Sagarin?). Either way, there is way too little data to really determine anything this early in the season for this season. Voter polls are especially focused on pre-season expectations and not in-season results.

Wins over teams from any of the $$$ conferences are good simply because they help the "opponents-opponents" component of the RPI later in the season. Just playing them is good, but wins are especially good. The key game for UNI was the ASU one, that got them on the right side of the bracket, providing two more quality games (and avoiding a potentially atrocious Tulane team).

Now UNI has two shots at what is supposed to be a quality Xavier team (currently ranked #11 by the early season prognosticators). If we can get one of these, we then have 4 winnable games before finishing with Iowa and North Carolina for the non-conference. Wish some other teams in the conference west of Kansas City would be trying to put these kinds of schedules together, or at least winning the games they do schedule.
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