Dec. 17-18 Games

[Stickboy46]

If ISUr can win through their tourney this week, I might move them to the #1 spot. They very well could have the best RPI heading into the Valley Season (currently 59 vs WSU at 70)

Blasphemy!


Seriously though, I still wouldn't. Winning a neutral court tourney (except the true road game vs. Hawaii) against underwhelming teams isn't like walking into Cedar Falls or Wichita and coming out with W's.

Until we can close out games on the road, I still think Wichita is better no matter what happens this weekend.

3 things have to happen to flip flop the Birds and the Shockers.

1. Win the tourney this weekend
2. ISU goes 5-0 to start the slate... which includes a win at Loyola
3. Wichita drops either the @ Ind. St. game or the @ UNI game.

Until then, the Shockers have shown me more than the Birds and should remain atop any power rankings.

Just to be clear .. I'm just stating Non-Conf Grades .. All your points are valid otherwise lol. ISUr wins out this tourney and i think they had the best overall Non-Con

[Rollbird5]

Big three game stretch for us in Hawaii. we need to beat Hawaii, then I think Utah woule be a nice win to have,and then I'd like to play Tulsa again. If we could beat down Tulsa like we should've the first game it may make the road loss look less terrible or make it look like more of a fluke game for us. We'll see what happens

[Old School MVC]

If I remember correctly, UNI started off conference last year 2-6. Needless to say we know what happened after that. I would never count them out.

"We know what happened after that"?? Last I checked they finished 4th (5 games out of 1st) and was no where near an at large bid. They got in by getting hot during the Arch Madness tournament. They made a respectable run before collapsing against Texas A&M. No where in that sentence were they ever challenging for the MVC regular season title last year. No trashing on their postseason accomplishment, but their regular season was under whelming for sure.

Let me recap what they did since you seem to have blinders on. They went on a 12-1 run in the conference regular season and in St. Louis which included a 2-0 record vs. your vaunted Shockers! Yes the mighty Shockers held on to their 6 game lead over the Panthers to win the regular season title (I had to throw that in or the Wichita fans get a little edgy if we do not tell them how great they are), but collapsed again in St. Louis.

What I am trying to say is you can never count out the fact that UNI will make a run at some time in the season. I think we all understand that when you dig yourself a deep hole (losing 5 of 6) that you will not be in contention for the regular season championship. But yet you can keep your head high knowing that there is a good chance you can play Wichita St on Saturday in St. Louis. AND YES, WE ALL KNOW HOW WELL WICHITA PRODUCES ON SATURDAY IN ST. LOUIS !!!!

[specialsauce]

If I remember correctly, UNI started off conference last year 2-6. Needless to say we know what happened after that. I would never count them out.

"We know what happened after that"?? Last I checked they finished 4th (5 games out of 1st) and was no where near an at large bid. They got in by getting hot during the Arch Madness tournament. They made a respectable run before collapsing against Texas A&M. No where in that sentence were they ever challenging for the MVC regular season title last year. No trashing on their postseason accomplishment, but their regular season was under whelming for sure.

Let me recap what they did since you seem to have blinders on. They went on a 12-1 run in the conference regular season and in St. Louis which included a 2-0 record vs. your vaunted Shockers! Yes the mighty Shockers held on to their 6 game lead over the Panthers to win the regular season title (I had to throw that in or the Wichita fans get a little edgy if we do not tell them how great they are), but collapsed again in St. Louis.

What I am trying to say is you can never count out the fact that UNI will make a run at some time in the season. I think we all understand that when you dig yourself a deep hole (losing 5 of 6) that you will not be in contention for the regular season championship. But yet you can keep your head high knowing that there is a good chance you can play Wichita St on Saturday in St. Louis. AND YES, WE ALL KNOW HOW WELL WICHITA PRODUCES ON SATURDAY IN ST. LOUIS !!!!

And that right there is the loser mentality most Valley fans have. Screw the regular season. Let's only try during that 3 day stretch in March like the other loser SWAC level conferences do. That a boy.

I'll take WSU's regular season and NCAA accomplishments in the last 5 years (or in their history) for that matter over any MVC 3-day festival garbage that proves you're more lucky than good.

LOLZ times infinity.

[specialsauce]

There's a lot of factors going into a ranking like that. What teams were expected to do, what they actually did, their SOS's, their W's and L's. If you take all of that in consideration, I'd go with:

1. WSU 8-3 - No bad losses (although a 17 point home loss even to a good team doesn't look good. No quality wins (although LSU's RPI has risen to 60. Won't hold in SEC play though)
2. Ill St 5-3 - No road wins, bad losses to Murray and Tulsa, decent win over St. Joe's
3. Loyola 8-2 - Based on their preseason expectations, they have exceeded expectations. They have no good wins (SDSU is not the same as years' past, even though that's a good W for Loyola), No bad losses (lost a one possession game at NC State)
4. UNI 4-5 - No good wins (Arizona State is kinda meh), no terrible losses (although losing by 23 to a mediocre Iowa team isn't too hot looking). Based on expectations, they seemed to have fallen short.
5. Ind St 4-6 - Easily the conference's best win vs. Butler, a series of one-possession losses and some bad ones to Northern Illinois and at home to WKU (18 points). No constancy at all here.
6. MSU 6-3 - No good wins (best one is to #130 NDSU). Played Valpo close at home but ultimately lost. Bad losses to Air Force and especially DePaul.
7. Evansville 7-4 - 2nd most wins in conference, BUT they've loaded up on a high fructose diet of cupcakes. They have an OK home win over Boise State. No terrible losses.
8. SIU 5-5 - No eye-popping wins, and everybody they've played with a pulse they lost.
9. Bradley 4-6 - Best win is a win at #196 EIU. The rest is... not good.
10. Drake 0-9 - When you're 1 of about 3 schools yet to record a D-1 win into late December, well 'nuff said.

Good assessment. This is the good side of you. Very knowledgeable.

It looks like middle of the conference will be another tight race this year.

Thank you. I'm not opposed to you or being engaging in good conversation. It's hypocritical trolls like retire12 that starts s*** on the daily that I will not let go by without a reality check.

[Old School MVC]

Let me recap what they did since you seem to have blinders on. They went on a 12-1 run in the conference regular season and in St. Louis which included a 2-0 record vs. your vaunted Shockers! Yes the mighty Shockers held on to their 6 game lead over the Panthers to win the regular season title (I had to throw that in or the Wichita fans get a little edgy if we do not tell them how great they are), but collapsed again in St. Louis.

What I am trying to say is you can never count out the fact that UNI will make a run at some time in the season. I think we all understand that when you dig yourself a deep hole (losing 5 of 6) that you will not be in contention for the regular season championship. But yet you can keep your head high knowing that there is a good chance you can play Wichita St on Saturday in St. Louis. AND YES, WE ALL KNOW HOW WELL WICHITA PRODUCES ON SATURDAY IN ST. LOUIS !!!!

And that right there is the loser mentality most Valley fans have. Screw the regular season. Let's only try during that 3 day stretch in March like the other loser SWAC level conferences do. That a boy.

I'll take WSU's regular season and NCAA accomplishments in the last 5 years (or in their history) for that matter over any MVC 3-day festival garbage that proves you're more lucky than good.

LOLZ times infinity.

I agree and disagree. Yes I would rather have WSU success (who wouldn't). But no, St. Louis is not all luck. If that were the case then you guys would be considered a VERY UNLUCKY team! If I remember correctly, UNI made it just as far in the NCAA's last year as WSU (the round of 32). My point is (that the Shox fans apparently disagree with) is that it is hard to count out a good program after a losing streak. UNI is struggling now, but I feel they will be one of the favorites going into St. Louis. At that point, my guess is that Wichita will have won the regular season and in a Shocker fans words just be hoping to "Get Lucky" in St. Louis to make the dance.

[Stickboy46]

If I remember correctly, UNI started off conference last year 2-6. Needless to say we know what happened after that. I would never count them out.

"We know what happened after that"?? Last I checked they finished 4th (5 games out of 1st) and was no where near an at large bid. They got in by getting hot during the Arch Madness tournament. They made a respectable run before collapsing against Texas A&M. No where in that sentence were they ever challenging for the MVC regular season title last year. No trashing on their postseason accomplishment, but their regular season was under whelming for sure.

Let me recap what they did since you seem to have blinders on. They went on a 12-1 run in the conference regular season and in St. Louis which included a 2-0 record vs. your vaunted Shockers! Yes the mighty Shockers held on to their 6 game lead over the Panthers to win the regular season title (I had to throw that in or the Wichita fans get a little edgy if we do not tell them how great they are), but collapsed again in St. Louis.

What I am trying to say is you can never count out the fact that UNI will make a run at some time in the season. I think we all understand that when you dig yourself a deep hole (losing 5 of 6) that you will not be in contention for the regular season championship. But yet you can keep your head high knowing that there is a good chance you can play Wichita St on Saturday in St. Louis. AND YES, WE ALL KNOW HOW WELL WICHITA PRODUCES ON SATURDAY IN ST. LOUIS !!!!

No blinders at all on my side. A little bit on your side. I focused on the season as a whole, you focused on a small segment of the season. As i said, not trashing on their post season accomplishments, but its not even January and without a win @ UNC, I don't see any way possible they are an at large team, which means IMO they are done. Their season doesn't restart until the first weekend in March.

Yes, I realize that is a bit dramatic as they could theoretically win out the rest of their games and get an at-large. The chances of that are pretty much zero. Until they learn how to not be nearly 100% dependent on 3 point shooting, they wont be going on any long runs anytime soon.

[Rollbird5]

If UNI is hot from 3 in St Louis there's a good shot they will win the tourney championship, if they aren't hot from 3 they are probably going home Friday night.

[specialsauce]

If UNI is hot from 3 in St Louis there's a good shot they will win the tourney championship, if they aren't hot from 3 they are probably going home Friday night.

Exactly. And that proves my entire point that it's a crapshoot. Anybody who gets hot from 3 has a good chance of advancing.

[BirdsEyeView]

If UNI is hot from 3 in St Louis there's a good shot they will win the tourney championship, if they aren't hot from 3 they are probably going home Friday night.

Exactly. And that proves my entire point that it's a crapshoot. Anybody who gets hot from 3 has a good chance of advancing.

The same could be said in literally every sports playoff system, including my fantasy football league where a 5-8 team just made the finals by having a good few weeks.

Ideally you want to schedule up and win those NonCon games so you can afford some minor slips (in conference) and still get an at large.

UNI trending up (12-1) over the final half of the season was not going to be good enough to get into the NCAA Tournament if Evansville had beaten them on Sunday of Arch. Consistent winning over the course of the season is the only way for a mid-major to get an at-large. So, no you can't count out UNI....but you can count them out of an at-large berth.