Valley Game 4

[Stickboy46]

UNI had the game called the way they needed to be successful. It didn't matter.

WSU's defense isn't close at all (yet) to how good it's been the last several years. And even that is still light years better than UNI right now.

The Panthers chose to guard the paint and be beat by the 3. If you're going to give Shamet, Frankamp & Reaves and Smith those kind of wide open looks, they're going to shoot a very high %.

I get that UNI has to pick their poison against the Shocks. They need help to win. They didn't get enough of it today.

To the Redbird poster: Please tell me WSU's "bad" loss. I'm looking forward to your answer.

Also please list out all the other rankings that are considered.. Kenpom , Massey, sagarin etc etc. Nearly all of those really love WSU

[specialsauce]

Gotta love playing at Flop U with Janssen handing out Oscar's.

'
No s***, that flop that they called Koch for the offensive foul was definitely Academy deserving.

And now you know how every fan who plays UNI feels. And that's just 1 to your 20.

[specialsauce]

They didn't play much better today. They had Janssen and played against WSU. And still lost by 16. Do you know how hard that is?

Janssen didn't do any favors to UNI unless you call letting the Shockers constantly get away with shuffle steps that have been called travels on UNI all year. Nurger was allowed to use his elbow to clear space down low as well.

You're absolutely, positively insane.

[specialsauce]

To the Redbird poster: Please tell me WSU's "bad" loss. I'm looking forward to your answer.

Good luck getting it out of that irky-jerky fellow. He doesn't take criticism well.

It PAINS him that WSU has owned his team and this league for the last half-decade. He'll say anything he wants to try to get the "edge". Just like this resume game he's playing. It's absolutely hilarious how bad he wants to win the NIT resume contest lol.

[BirdsEyeView]

To the Redbird poster: Please tell me WSU's "bad" loss. I'm looking forward to your answer.

Good luck getting it out of that irky-jerky fellow. He doesn't take criticism well.

It PAINS him that WSU has owned his team and this league for the last half-decade. He'll say anything he wants to try to get the "edge". Just like this resume game he's playing. It's absolutely hilarious how bad he wants to win the NIT resume contest lol.

I'll answer. Zero bad losses. But, no good wins (just like us).

Sauce, read his message above and respond to it. There are some very valid points (beyond the bickering) that you refuse to answer when you have no snarky answers back. Read all of his messages throughout this thread and then provide an educated response once you comprehend the messages he writes.

[BirdsEyeView]

Also please list out all the other rankings that are considered.. Kenpom , Massey, sagarin etc etc. Nearly all of those really love WSU

I'll answer this one as well...
You lead us on those.
However, how much weight has the NCAA Tourney Selection Committee actually placed on any of the above listed rankings? It seems like all they care about is RPI and top 50 wins. I never, ever hear them talk about Kenpom, Massey, Sagarin, etc. when they are defending (after the fact) the reasons for putting certain schools into the field over others.


I agree they should be used, but RPI and top 50 wins seems to be their barometer for justification....thus those others are just there for show, in my opinion, until they start using them within the committee.

Again, why are we arguing resumes 4 games into the conference season? Both teams are long shots at getting an at-large right now.
Stickboy, SpecialSauce, WuFan, etc should all be rooting for ISUr when not facing us and vice versa.

Sauce won't

You others can and should.

[Khan4Cats]

They didn't play much better today. They had Janssen and played against WSU. And still lost by 16. Do you know how hard that is?

Janssen didn't do any favors to UNI unless you call letting the Shockers constantly get away with shuffle steps that have been called travels on UNI all year. Nurger was allowed to use his elbow to clear space down low as well.

You're absolutely, positively insane.

Right, because my team won by 16 and I'm still complaining about officiating? Sorry, baller, my team didn't play well enough to win yesterday. The officials did nothing to help them either. The game was called consistently throughout (though different than a lot of UNI's games this year). The only two flops in the game occurred by WSU players-one on Koch, one by a WSU player acting like he was shot flying out of bounds on a rebound that got a call from Janssen two seconds after the play occurred.

[Cdizzle]

Just because you guys are used to watching the Jacobson-coached flop-fest every game doesn't mean it isn't still happening. WSU was whistled for 14 first half fouls. 14. And I'm supposed to believe that the athleticism and strength that WSU has that leads to all these fouls doesn't also cause problems for the opposition. It's laughable. You had Janssen single-handedly remove Willis and Morris from the game and then still proceeded to get owned by Nurger.

Complaining about Janssen officiating in a 16 point win demonstrates that it isn't sour grapes from a losing team. It's a man with an agenda, that for some reason buys Jacobson's brand of head-throwing and flopping.

[Stickboy46]

Just because you guys are used to watching the Jacobson-coached flop-fest every game doesn't mean it isn't still happening. WSU was whistled for 14 first half fouls. 14. And I'm supposed to believe that the athleticism and strength that WSU has that leads to all these fouls doesn't also cause problems for the opposition. It's laughable. You had Janssen single-handedly remove Willis and Morris from the game and then still proceeded to get owned by Nurger.

Complaining about Janssen officiating in a 16 point win demonstrates that it isn't sour grapes from a losing team. It's a man with an agenda, that for some reason buys Jacobson's brand of head-throwing and flopping.

The Morgan flop was comical. Morgan extends his chest forward, initiating enough contact to bump Willis back, so Willis pushes back with his back and Morgan goes flying across the floor like he had been karate kicked. Janssen ignores the initial foul on Morgan then rewards the flop with a Foul on Willis.

Then there was the Clotheline on a rebound, that not only wasn't called a foul .. they called a travel on WSU ... How is he supposed to stand up when the UNI player grabs him around the neck and brings him to the ground? ... https://gfycat.com/MarvelousPhysicalCarp .. There is the video of this.

Then there was the tomahawk chop that Morgan did on McDuffie. It was an obvious INTENTIONAL foul to prevent a layup. The problem is that they didn't call it.

[Redbirdgrad]

To the Redbird poster: Please tell me WSU's "bad" loss. I'm looking forward to your answer.

You are 100% correct, my bad. I was in my head considering the bad loss to be Oklahoma State because of how bad that beat-down was, but when referencing the numbers it's not as bad as it seems. I still don't think Oklahoma State is a good team, and I fully expected you to win that game (as did you guys)... that's probably why I slotted it that way in my head.

Again, in the context of the original discussion, we were discussing resumes and wondering who we should be pulling for right now in the Valley to run the table and lose in the Championship game in order to get 2 teams in since we all agree this is most likely a 1 bid conference right now.

Pertaining to that discussion, and that discussion alone, the numbers work out in favor of Illinois State this year, at this point in time. Here is the current breakdown of the resumes using RPI (Stickboy, when massey, etc. starts being more seriously used by the committee, we can start looking at those numbers, but those metrics aren't referenced at this present time.. but I do concede they favor Wichita currently):

Illinois State:
Current RPI - 46
Current SOS - 79
Wins by RPI - 59, 118, 128, 145, 158, 165, 169, 180, 194, 211, 320
Losses by RPI - 36, 159, 165, 226
Average RPI Win - 167.9
Average RPI Loss - 146.5
RPI should ISU run the table - 24
SOS should ISU run the table - 136

Wichita State:
Current RPI - 96
Current SOS - 251
Wins by RPI - 97, 139, 165, 167, 169, 170, 186, 200, 212, 261, 275, 278, 319
Losses by RPI - 9, 35, 54
Average RPI Win - 202.9
Average RPI Loss - 32.7
RPI should Wichita run the table - 31
SOS should Wichita run the table - 169

So in looking at the data above...

Best win - ISU
Best collection of wins - ISU (Wichita barely has a top 100 win and 6 of their wins come against 200+ teams)
Best loss - Wichita
Best collection of losses - Wichita (by a longshot)

ISU's RPI/SOS numbers are better after showing what would hypothetically happen should each team run the table, so for the purposes of the MVC's best chance at getting 2 in... the Valley should be rooting for ISU to do it.

It's all moot anyway, because no matter which side you look at, neither team gets in as an at large this year. It was a hypothetical exercise in who to root for to run the table, and the numbers back up my original claim.

I appreciate the discussion with the Wichita fans who can have intellectual ones such as this, and look forward to more. I'll be pulling for the Shockers in every single game but 2 this year (maybe 3 in St. Louis). Good luck to you guys!