Wed, Jan 11th. 5th MVC Game

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Re: Wed, Jan 11th. 5th MVC Game

Postby Cdizzle » January 11th, 2017, 1:57 pm

I mean, is 2 games a 'run?'

I'm not trying to remove credit from those wins. I just think they are what they are; good, singular wins. They are good enough wins to help make the case that a team is of good quality. But you have to be wiling to put your blinders on and not look at the rest of the season, and question a bunch of losses the Indiana St., Murray St. etc.

I'm trying to remain generic here and not direct my comments directly towards ISU. I mean them to apply generally across the board.
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Re: Wed, Jan 11th. 5th MVC Game

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Re: Wed, Jan 11th. 5th MVC Game

Postby Cdizzle » January 11th, 2017, 2:03 pm

BirdsEyeView wrote:Nitpicking here Wichita guys.

It's impossible to measure what is considered a good vs great vs average vs bad team. I would consider us to be good, but not good enough team in all of those years.

Your opinions are skewed towards your own perceptions stemming from undefeated seasons, Final Fours, constant NCAA Tournaments. You guys would be considered "great" mid-major teams in those years.

Those were 'great' teams period, except for December-February of 2012-2013. That team was pretty average.

I would propose it's not really impossible to measure, but that you are correct we are arguing semantics over a rating scale we haven't even calibrated.

Back to the thread....

Interesting week. WSU and ISUr both play teams that they should beat, but that are definitely good enough to beat them without needing a friggin' miracle. All while having the potentially big conference race matchup this weekend. Will be a good test to see which teams can keep focused, and a good measuring stick for SIU and LUC as well.
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Re: Wed, Jan 11th. 5th MVC Game

Postby BirdsEyeView » January 11th, 2017, 2:07 pm

Cdizzle wrote:
BirdsEyeView wrote:Nitpicking here Wichita guys.

It's impossible to measure what is considered a good vs great vs average vs bad team. I would consider us to be good, but not good enough team in all of those years.

Your opinions are skewed towards your own perceptions stemming from undefeated seasons, Final Fours, constant NCAA Tournaments. You guys would be considered "great" mid-major teams in those years.

Those were 'great' teams period, except for December-February of 2012-2013. That team was pretty average.

I would propose it's not really impossible to measure, but that you are correct we are arguing semantics over a rating scale we haven't even calibrated.

Back to the thread....

Interesting week. WSU and ISUr both play teams that they should beat, but that are definitely good enough to beat them without needing a friggin' miracle. All while having the potentially big conference race matchup this weekend. Will be a good test to see which teams can keep focused, and a good measuring stick for SIU and LUC as well.


:+1:
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Re: Wed, Jan 11th. 5th MVC Game

Postby Redbirdgrad » January 11th, 2017, 2:08 pm

Cdizzle wrote:I mean, is 2 games a 'run?'

I'm not trying to remove credit from those wins. I just think they are what they are; good, singular wins. They are good enough wins to help make the case that a team is of good quality. But you have to be wiling to put your blinders on and not look at the rest of the season, and question a bunch of losses the Indiana St., Murray St. etc.

I'm trying to remain generic here and not direct my comments directly towards ISU. I mean them to apply generally across the board.


It is when your coach struggles to get out of Saturday games in St. Louis... ahem... :)

:Cheers:

You made a statement that getting to the MVC finals didn't necessarily mean you were a good team because of the competition you faced on Friday and Saturday. I showed you where in our history, it actually did mean the team we had was pretty good, especially pointing out where we had to beat two solid Wichita teams on Saturday in order to get to the final.

Let's both take care of business tonight though and get to Saturday!!!
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Re: Wed, Jan 11th. 5th MVC Game

Postby Cdizzle » January 11th, 2017, 2:13 pm

Redbirdgrad wrote:It is when your coach struggles to get out of Saturday games in St. Louis... ahem... :)
:Cheers:

As much crap as Marshall and WSU get for flailing in St. Louis (and somewhat deservedly so, I get it), there is only one coach in the league with more MVC Tourney titles, and 7 with less. I think the ISUr NCAA tournament record *cough* during that time would indicate they are probably among those programs with coaches in the "less" category.

:Cheers:
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Re: Wed, Jan 11th. 5th MVC Game

Postby Redbirdgrad » January 11th, 2017, 2:18 pm

Cdizzle wrote:
Redbirdgrad wrote:It is when your coach struggles to get out of Saturday games in St. Louis... ahem... :)
:Cheers:

As much crap as Marshall and WSU get for flailing in St. Louis (and somewhat deservedly so, I get it), there is only one coach in the league with more MVC Tourney titles, and 7 with less. I think the ISUr NCAA tournament record *cough* during that time would indicate they are probably among those programs with coaches in the "less" category.

:Cheers:


And here we go with changing the argument because the original one is lost by a Shocker!

Yes, we've VASTLY under-performed under past and current coaching staffs. No Illinois State fan will disagree with you at all there. Here's to hoping that trend is over!
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Re: Wed, Jan 11th. 5th MVC Game

Postby Cdizzle » January 11th, 2017, 2:22 pm

Redbirdgrad wrote:
Cdizzle wrote:
Redbirdgrad wrote:It is when your coach struggles to get out of Saturday games in St. Louis... ahem... :)
:Cheers:

As much crap as Marshall and WSU get for flailing in St. Louis (and somewhat deservedly so, I get it), there is only one coach in the league with more MVC Tourney titles, and 7 with less. I think the ISUr NCAA tournament record *cough* during that time would indicate they are probably among those programs with coaches in the "less" category.

:Cheers:


And here we go with changing the argument because the original one is lost by a Shocker!

Yes, we've VASTLY under-performed under past and current coaching staffs. No Illinois State fan will disagree with you at all there. Here's to hoping that trend is over!

Who changed what argument? And who lost an argument to begin with? I get so confused sometimes with all the grasping for relevance straws.
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Re: Wed, Jan 11th. 5th MVC Game

Postby hot nuts » January 11th, 2017, 2:35 pm

Maybe the Redbirds and Shockers both lose tonight and everyone can commence with the long lost tradition from message boards long since extinct...hating on the first place Salukis.
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Re: Wed, Jan 11th. 5th MVC Game

Postby Redbirdgrad » January 11th, 2017, 2:39 pm

Cdizzle wrote:Who changed what argument? And who lost an argument to begin with? I get so confused sometimes with all the grasping for relevance straws.


Who is grasping at relevance? You made a claim that was refuted with facts.

Original claim: Getting to the finals in St. Louis can involve beating 2 teams of questionable quality. It doesn't mean you suck, but that alone is a tremendously weak argument to be a 'good' team.

Refuted claim: See above posts with games and box scores of good, solid semifinal games showing those games weren't against teams of "questionable quality". This was shown as an understanding of where BirdsEyeView would have thought we had "good" teams to make the finals of those tourneys. "Bad" or even "mediocre" teams, don't win those 4 games I pointed out to you as examples.

You then tried to backtrack and say those were only "1 game" and you had to look at the season as a whole... then tried to reference where good teams may have laid an egg in "1 game" negating the stance you just took.

It's ok for a point you make to be wrong. I know you're used to winning everything under the sun, but being wrong about 1 point on a message board isn't the end of the world man.
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Re: Wed, Jan 11th. 5th MVC Game

Postby specialsauce » January 11th, 2017, 3:06 pm

Boy, it sure doesn't take long to get this guy out from under the rocks. Not a peep for nearly 24 hours until someone casted doubt on his beloved Redbirds and now he's running loose. Yah, speaking for not ever letting things go or for a rock to slip through the crack. Hi Pot. Meet Kettle.

Who would have the audacity to question the "goodness" of Illinois State based on two freaking wins in the Valley Tournament? The bar is being set pretty low here.

It's absolutely astonishing how some fans build up 3 days in St. Louis and think that is superior and out-of-worldly over a 3 month stretch of games. But then again, when the argument doesn't favor you, it makes sense.
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Re: Wed, Jan 11th. 5th MVC Game

Postby BirdsEyeView » January 11th, 2017, 3:21 pm

specialsauce wrote:It's absolutely astonishing how some fans build up 3 days in St. Louis and think that is superior and out-of-worldly over a 3 month stretch of games. But then again, when the argument doesn't favor you, it makes sense.


He's not building up 3 days in STL. He was defending my "good" team stance that was attempted to be refuted (which is a no-win argument anyways).

We want to get an at large bid just like you without relying on Arch Madness. The thread from Valley Game 4 with your back and forth arguments about this defends that end-game. If he didn't care about the at large, then that argument never happens.
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Re: Wed, Jan 11th. 5th MVC Game

Postby Redbirdgrad » January 11th, 2017, 3:35 pm

specialsauce wrote:Boy, it sure doesn't take long to get this guy out from under the rocks. Not a peep for nearly 24 hours until someone casted doubt on his beloved Redbirds and now he's running loose. Yah, speaking for not ever letting things go or for a rock to slip through the crack. Hi Pot. Meet Kettle.

There's my buddy! Finally!!!!
Yeah, it took me a bit to post and I'm sorry for not checking in with you before doing so.
I'm sorry I don't have 26,000 posts spanning a few different boards as well as many different names.
You know... things to do and all.

specialsauce wrote:Who would have the audacity to question the "goodness" of Illinois State based on two freaking wins in the Valley Tournament? The bar is being set pretty low here.
It's absolutely astonishing how some fans build up 3 days in St. Louis and think that is superior and out-of-worldly over a 3 month stretch of games.

Can someone on the shocker message board sit this kid down and teach him how to read? PLEASE?!? It's not even fun anymore debating him when he doesn't even grasp the topic at hand.
specialsauce wrote:But then again, when the argument doesn't favor you, it makes sense.


How on God's green earth would you know if an argument favors someone when you don't even understand the argument at hand?
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