If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

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Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby Redbirdgrad » January 26th, 2017, 10:05 pm

ShoxNAwe wrote:
Redbirdgrad wrote:This is a tough one. The MVC has survived many name schools leaving, and it's still been able to right the ship.

Not so much. The Valley used to be the #1 conference in the country. If you all want to fight over being 12th or 14th or 16th if/when WSU departs, enjoy your boatride in the toilet.


LOL. The Valley isn't going into the toilet with just Wichita leaving and adding another team in (if that even happens).

Now, if that move causes a UNI and ISU or others to improve into FBS for football and make a conference move due to that as well... then we're talking.

But Wichita alone wont tank the Valley.
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Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

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Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby TheAsianSensation » January 26th, 2017, 11:00 pm

It is all about the non-con SoS, but with the NCAA meeting this last week with all the statheads, I'm guessing non-con SoS is one of the things on the chopping block for major reform (or at least it sure as hell better be). Far too much of it is bad team avoidance right now; less weight needs to be given to cupcakes and more to quality opponents.

We're getting better at non-con SoS this year, only a couple real albatrosses (Missouri St is a good lesson about not every MTT being worth it). And then there's Wichita...what SoS God did you anger this year? My God.
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Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby TheObserver » January 27th, 2017, 12:17 am

Redbirdgrad wrote:
LOL. The Valley isn't going into the toilet with just Wichita leaving and adding another team in (if that even happens).

Now, if that move causes a UNI and ISU or others to improve into FBS for football and make a conference move due to that as well... then we're talking.

But Wichita alone wont tank the Valley.


LOL.

So if UNI or Illinois State leaves the Valley, it's in the toilet, but if WSU leaves, it can survive? LOL. Ok.

UNI leaving would be far more damaging than if Illinois State left. UNI has a history of winning in this league, has recent NCAA Tournament appearances/success, and has been consistently above average for a far longer time than Illinois State, who for all we know could be a hot Johnny-come-lately and tank after their load of seniors graduate. So please.

Also, you're assuming a lot with these FBS aspirations. I'm gonna go ahead and say it's way more likely the Valley hits #16 in the RPI after WSU leaves than UNI or Illinois State joining FBS football.
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Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby BirdsEyeView » January 27th, 2017, 8:16 am

TheObserver wrote:
Redbirdgrad wrote:
LOL. The Valley isn't going into the toilet with just Wichita leaving and adding another team in (if that even happens).

Now, if that move causes a UNI and ISU or others to improve into FBS for football and make a conference move due to that as well... then we're talking.

But Wichita alone wont tank the Valley.


LOL.

So if UNI or Illinois State leaves the Valley, it's in the toilet, but if WSU leaves, it can survive? LOL. Ok.

UNI leaving would be far more damaging than if Illinois State left. UNI has a history of winning in this league, has recent NCAA Tournament appearances/success, and has been consistently above average for a far longer time than Illinois State, who for all we know could be a hot Johnny-come-lately and tank after their load of seniors graduate. So please.

Also, you're assuming a lot with these FBS aspirations. I'm gonna go ahead and say it's way more likely the Valley hits #16 in the RPI after WSU leaves than UNI or Illinois State joining FBS football.


TheObserver....Re-read his message (I highlighted the key part in bold and underline). It states

"The Valley isn't going into the toilet with just Wichita leaving and adding another team in (if that even happens).
Now, if that move causes a UNI and ISU or others to improve into FBS for football and make a conference move due to that as well... then we're talking."

So, what he is saying is if WSU leaves AND it causes ISUr and UNI to leave because of it to FBS football conferences, then the Valley is in trouble. They are not mutually exclusive moves away from the conference.

Also, you understand moves out of the conference are for ALL SPORTS, not just basketball right? So, you have to take into account the impact of a move for all sports, not just basketball. Here is an excerpt from the all sports trophy article for 2015-16 season:

"Either Illinois State, Missouri State or Wichita State, meanwhile, has earned the league’s all-sports championship trophy every year since 1995. Illinois State won five of six all-sports championships from 1996-2001, while Missouri State claimed the league’s trophy in 2001-02, 2002-03 and in 2011-12. Notably, Illinois State has 12 all-sports crowns and has finished first, second, or third in 24 of the past 26 years."

http://www.mvc-sports.com/awards/allspo ... ItVRxsrKM8

So, back to your jab at Illinois State....is UNI really that much better in ALL SPORTS than ISUr? Absolutely not, they are worse.
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Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby BCPanther » January 27th, 2017, 8:22 am

BirdsEyeView wrote:
TheObserver wrote:
Redbirdgrad wrote:
LOL. The Valley isn't going into the toilet with just Wichita leaving and adding another team in (if that even happens).

Now, if that move causes a UNI and ISU or others to improve into FBS for football and make a conference move due to that as well... then we're talking.

But Wichita alone wont tank the Valley.


LOL.

So if UNI or Illinois State leaves the Valley, it's in the toilet, but if WSU leaves, it can survive? LOL. Ok.

UNI leaving would be far more damaging than if Illinois State left. UNI has a history of winning in this league, has recent NCAA Tournament appearances/success, and has been consistently above average for a far longer time than Illinois State, who for all we know could be a hot Johnny-come-lately and tank after their load of seniors graduate. So please.

Also, you're assuming a lot with these FBS aspirations. I'm gonna go ahead and say it's way more likely the Valley hits #16 in the RPI after WSU leaves than UNI or Illinois State joining FBS football.


TheObserver....Re-read his message (I highlighted the key part in bold and underline). It states

"The Valley isn't going into the toilet with just Wichita leaving and adding another team in (if that even happens).
Now, if that move causes a UNI and ISU or others to improve into FBS for football and make a conference move due to that as well... then we're talking."

So, what he is saying is if WSU leaves AND it causes ISUr and UNI to leave because of it to FBS football conferences, then the Valley is in trouble. They are not mutually exclusive moves away from the conference.

Also, you understand moves out of the conference are for ALL SPORTS, not just basketball right? So, you have to take into account the impact of a move for all sports, not just basketball. Here is an excerpt from the all sports trophy article for 2015-16 season:

"Either Illinois State, Missouri State or Wichita State, meanwhile, has earned the league’s all-sports championship trophy every year since 1995. Illinois State won five of six all-sports championships from 1996-2001, while Missouri State claimed the league’s trophy in 2001-02, 2002-03 and in 2011-12. Notably, Illinois State has 12 all-sports crowns and has finished first, second, or third in 24 of the past 26 years."

http://www.mvc-sports.com/awards/allspo ... ItVRxsrKM8

So, back to your jab at Illinois State....is UNI really that much better in ALL SPORTS than ISUr? Absolutely not, they are worse.


Of course UNI doesn't win the All-Sports Trophy. We don't have baseball and the Valley doesn't have wrestling and football doesn't count. The All-Sports Trophy is a cool thing, but its not exactly comparing apples to apples.
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Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby Redbirds4Life » January 27th, 2017, 9:03 am

^Not a huge UNI guy, but lets be honest, Illinois State-Northern Iowa would be equally damaging in the grand scheme....I'd say from an overall perspective, both teams are pretty even in the eyes of most.

Has anyone thrown out that if ISU/UNI left for FBS, that maybe Wichita would leave? Not sure if I'm alone on this one, but I think if either happens, the other one follows...and the whole argument about losing Wichita Vs UNI/ISU is tough, cus while Wichita does have a bigger name in CBB, its replacing 2 teams vs 1 team.
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Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby BirdsEyeView » January 27th, 2017, 9:18 am

Redbirds4Life wrote:^Not a huge UNI guy, but lets be honest, Illinois State-Northern Iowa would be equally damaging in the grand scheme....I'd say from an overall perspective, both teams are pretty even in the eyes of most.

Has anyone thrown out that if ISU/UNI left for FBS, that maybe Wichita would leave? Not sure if I'm alone on this one, but I think if either happens, the other one follows...and the whole argument about losing Wichita Vs UNI/ISU is tough, cus while Wichita does have a bigger name in CBB, its replacing 2 teams vs 1 team.


The argument was never about replacing WSU vs UNi & ISU. TheObserver misunderstood the comment by Redbirdgrad.
It's compounding each other. WSU leaves to the AAC and then UNI & ISUr follow to an FBS school, which is all hypothetical.

Please go back to PE class before the teacher catches you on your phone. You are just making this worse.
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Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby BirdsEyeView » January 27th, 2017, 9:24 am

BCPanther wrote:
Of course UNI doesn't win the All-Sports Trophy. We don't have baseball and the Valley doesn't have wrestling and football doesn't count. The All-Sports Trophy is a cool thing, but its not exactly comparing apples to apples.


Both have Football (ISUr has been better)
ISUr has Baseball (a more popular and desirable sport to bring into a new conference)
UNI has Wrestling (less desirable)

I was not really trying to make this about UNI vs ISUr. I just wanted to clarify to TheObserver that the moves aren't always just about basketball as they have to take all sports with.
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Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby Redbirds4Life » January 27th, 2017, 9:58 am

BirdsEyeView wrote:
Redbirds4Life wrote:^Not a huge UNI guy, but lets be honest, Illinois State-Northern Iowa would be equally damaging in the grand scheme....I'd say from an overall perspective, both teams are pretty even in the eyes of most.

Has anyone thrown out that if ISU/UNI left for FBS, that maybe Wichita would leave? Not sure if I'm alone on this one, but I think if either happens, the other one follows...and the whole argument about losing Wichita Vs UNI/ISU is tough, cus while Wichita does have a bigger name in CBB, its replacing 2 teams vs 1 team.


The argument was never about replacing WSU vs UNi & ISU. TheObserver misunderstood the comment by Redbirdgrad.
It's compounding each other. WSU leaves to the AAC and then UNI & ISUr follow to an FBS school, which is all hypothetical.

Please go back to PE class before the teacher catches you on your phone. You are just making this worse.



PE class, good one.

My whole deal was just wondering if hypothetically UNI/ISU left before Wichita did anything. I think that Wichita would see themselves in a position to get out before it gets any worse. If all 3 left, that would cripple the conference.

And I disagree with you, I think both teams are pretty equally desirable. To the right league, College Wrestling would be pretty attractive, especially in the state of Iowa.
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Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby Cdizzle » January 27th, 2017, 10:03 am

Redbirds4Life wrote:My whole deal was just wondering if hypothetically UNI/ISU left before Wichita did anything. I think that Wichita would see themselves in a position to get out before it gets any worse.

WSU already sees themselves in a position to get out before it gets any worse.

There has to be somewhere to go.

ISU and UNI aren't waiting on WSU to leave to decide to go FBS. That's not a thing.
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