If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Discuss the MVC hoops season here.

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby Rambler63 » January 10th, 2018, 10:11 pm

bleach wrote:
mvcfan wrote:
Redbirdgrad wrote:I thought you Shocker fans didn't like using RPI. What gives?

:huh:


I don’t think it’s the best metric but as we found out last year, the NCAA Tournament Selection likes it, so we received a 10 Seed when most experts said we were between 6-8. The RPI forecast may be off too. Hopefully the NCAA becomes more enlightened and uses more metrics when comparing teams.


WSU recieved a 10 seed because that is what the committee wanted to give them. Until there is a hard fast formula to rank all teams, there will be injustices. As is, they use whatever metrics they want to use to include who they want.


I think this is right. When you think about it, they created the RPI through reverse engineering to
legitimize their feelings.

When it doesn't work for the purpose they intended, they ignore it.
User avatar
Rambler63
MVC starter
MVC starter
 
Posts: 264
Joined: May 4th, 2013, 3:25 pm
Location: Normal, IL

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Sponsor

Sponsor
 

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby TheAsianSensation » January 10th, 2018, 10:15 pm

Lots of RPI conspiracy theories. Come on guys.

They invented the RPI at a time when nothing remotely similar existed, and simply kept using it because the big boys kept performing well in it. There's no grand scheme against mid-majors, just a quiet subtle one :twisted:
http://bracketball.blogspot.com/ A national version of the world-famous TAS Bracketology. Spread the word
TheAsianSensation
MVCfans.com
MVCfans.com
 
Posts: 1097
Joined: April 6th, 2012, 7:23 am

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby LanceShock » January 11th, 2018, 8:31 am

Funny thing is that this season shows why WSU left. Had WSU stayed in the Valley, they would have ONE tier one game in conference play, at Missouri State, despite the overall improvement in the Valley. In the American, they should have one tier one home game and four tier one road games (it could end up being five). There is even a good chance that a tournament semifinal game for them could be tier one as well.

Unfortunately, when the committee looks at teams for the NCAA tournament, those are the games they will be looking at. WSU can lose most of their tier 1 games in the American and still have more tier 1 wins in conference play than they could have had in the Valley even if they won all of the Valley games.
LanceShock
MVC starter
MVC starter
 
Posts: 261
Joined: February 7th, 2011, 8:27 pm

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby BirdsEyeView » January 11th, 2018, 9:26 am

The only reason I brought up this thread again was to showcase how crazy it was for Wichita fans to think the sky would completely be falling, further than it had been, via conference RPI (the original subject to this thread even says RPI talk) with them leaving the conference. You Shocker fans keep moving the needle on the focus of the conversation, always in your favor. In this case, "who cares if your RPI for the conference improved, nobody cares about RPI and the MVC doesn't have any at-large caliber teams this year anyway."

ShockerFever among others were convinced this conference would fall into the abyss in RPI (16th was a projection they kept saying). Clearly not the case. The overall conference has improved, however there are no Illinois State or Wichita State teams who are NCAA tourney type teams this year for contention like last year.

I don't think anyone is arguing that leaving the conference was never a benefit for WSU Men's Basketball. It was a big advantage for WSU, especially this year. The only caveat being, your bottom is much worse than our bottom right now. But, the top is much, much better in the AAC than the MVC right now.
BirdsEyeView
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 1330
Joined: February 28th, 2014, 12:51 pm

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby LanceShock » January 11th, 2018, 10:00 am

In a lot of ways, it depends on what is important to you. This year, almost all Valley games should be competitive and should make for a very exciting race. You are right that many Shocker fans could not see beyond the program they follow to grasp that a more exciting Valley race would be of value to fans of other programs. Not that you aren't interested in at large bids, but that other things are important as well.
LanceShock
MVC starter
MVC starter
 
Posts: 261
Joined: February 7th, 2011, 8:27 pm

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby Snaggletooth » January 11th, 2018, 12:01 pm

Idk, if u you think there was more excitement in the MVC then I think you would see a boost in attendance. But you don't see that all. Overall the MVC average attendance compared to last year is down -12%. Only team with an increase is Lusk's Missouri State (better get a contract extension quick). You would think Valpo fans would be excited - but their attendance is down 14%. It not a pretty picture.

SIU -20%
MOSt +5%
UNI -10%
Valpo -14
Evansville -11%
DU -8%
BU -9%
ISUB -19%
ISUR -22%
LUC -1%
User avatar
Snaggletooth
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 1456
Joined: August 10th, 2010, 9:46 pm

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby Red » January 11th, 2018, 12:08 pm

Is this attendance YTD? Lots of MVC schools have poor attendance figures early in the season when the opponents are no-name type teams. I suspect MVC conference game attendance improves almost across the board at each school.
Red
All MVC
All MVC
 
Posts: 642
Joined: August 4th, 2010, 3:37 pm

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby Play Angry » January 11th, 2018, 12:21 pm

Red wrote:Is this attendance YTD? Lots of MVC schools have poor attendance figures early in the season when the opponents are no-name type teams. I suspect MVC conference game attendance improves almost across the board at each school.


Depends on the school - some have posted lower average attendance for MVC games than their OOC slates so far.
Play Angry
All MVC
All MVC
 
Posts: 803
Joined: October 17th, 2013, 12:06 pm

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby BradleyFan71 » January 11th, 2018, 12:35 pm

Red wrote:Is this attendance YTD? Lots of MVC schools have poor attendance figures early in the season when the opponents are no-name type teams. I suspect MVC conference game attendance improves almost across the board at each school.


Through the first three home conference games, Bradley's ticket sales are down just 2%, which could be attributed to playing Valpo instead of Loyola.
User avatar
BradleyFan71
MVC Role Player
MVC Role Player
 
Posts: 134
Joined: October 5th, 2013, 11:19 pm

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby BirdsEyeView » January 11th, 2018, 12:49 pm

Snaggletooth wrote:Idk, if u you think there was more excitement in the MVC then I think you would see a boost in attendance. But you don't see that all. Overall the MVC average attendance compared to last year is down -12%. Only team with an increase is Lusk's Missouri State (better get a contract extension quick). You would think Valpo fans would be excited - but their attendance is down 14%. It not a pretty picture.

SIU -20%
MOSt +5%
UNI -10%
Valpo -14
Evansville -11%
DU -8%
BU -9%
ISUB -19%
ISUR -22%
LUC -1%


Moving the needle to fit the agenda.
BirdsEyeView
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 1330
Joined: February 28th, 2014, 12:51 pm

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby Play Angry » January 11th, 2018, 12:59 pm

Attendance in the MVC is something I enjoyed tracking for many years. Below is a snapshot of where things stand versus their historical norms (I would create a separate thread for this but expect some might react negatively and view it as an attack of some sort). If someone else wants to copy the data and discuss in an independent thread, be my guest:

MVC Attendance Year-by-Year

2017-18 (to date) - 3,569
2016-17 - 5,010
2015-16 - 5,051
2014-15 - 5,176
2013-14 - 5,599
2012-13 - 7,270
2011-12 - 7,064
2010-11 - 7,187
2009-10 - 7,397
2008-09 - 7,752
2007-08 - 7,877

Obviously WSU's departure in 2017 and Creighton's departure in 2013 had significant impacts, but there is more to the story. Below are members' average attendance figures to date for 2017-18:

Bradley - 5007
Illinois State - 4652
Missouri State - 4401
Northern Iowa - 4062
Evansville- 3675
Southern Illinois - 3579
Indiana State - 3201
Valparaiso - 2650
Drake - 2621
Loyola - 1839

Now, below are historical snapshots for each current member school taken in 5 year intervals over the past 20 years:

Bradley - 2012-13 - 6557; 2007-08 - 9600; 2002-03 - 9351; 1997-98 - 9769
Illinois State - 2012-13 - 6541; 2007-08 - 6516; 2002-03 - 6021; 1997-98 - 8694
Missouri State - 2012-13 - 6080; 2007-08 - 6241; 2002-03 - 6295; 1997-98 -7161
Northern Iowa - 2012-13 - 4249; 2007-08 - 5096; 2002-03 - 3220; 1997-98 - 3564
Evansville- 2012-13 - 4463; 2007-08 - 5486; 2002-03 - 6671; 1997-98 - 8177
Southern Illinois - 2012-13 - 5007; 2007-08 - 6660; 2002-03 - 6567; 1997-98 - 3420
Indiana State - 2012-13 - 5726; 2007-08 - 4289; 2002-03 - 4339; 1997-98 - 6652
Valparaiso - 2012-13 - 3173; 2007-08 - 3666; 2002-03 - 4376; 1997-98 - 3861
Drake - 2012-13 - 3926; 2007-08 - 6038; 2002-03 - 3969; 1997-98 - 4093
Loyola - 2012-13 - 2278; 2007-08 - 1776; 2002-03 - 3010; 1997-98 - 2775

Average Attendance for Current Member Institutions:

2017-18 (to date): 3569
2016-17: 4212
2012-13: 4800
2007-08: 5537
2002-03: 5382
1997-98: 5817


All data above is taken from http://www.ncaa.org/championships/stati ... attendance except for YTD attendance for 2017-18, which is taken from each team's statistics page from their AD website.

Obviously these are broad declines across the board over the last 20 years, although the results vary significantly school by school. Members of the MVC will need to arrest and reverse this trend quickly if the league is to achieve the long term results each school desires.
Play Angry
All MVC
All MVC
 
Posts: 803
Joined: October 17th, 2013, 12:06 pm

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby Red » January 11th, 2018, 1:04 pm

A drop from 7200 to 3500 in the five years since Creighton and then Wichita State left is incredible.
Red
All MVC
All MVC
 
Posts: 642
Joined: August 4th, 2010, 3:37 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Missouri Valley Conference Basketball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jsnhbe1Birds, Rambler63 and 11 guests