If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Discuss the MVC hoops season here.

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby Redbirdgrad » January 2nd, 2018, 1:22 am

When I posted this thread last year, only the sane Wichita fans could comprehend and follow it. My analysis was correct.... it wasn't the top that mattered so much, it's the bottom of the league.

Glad to see it's playing out as expected.
Redbirdgrad
All MVC
All MVC
 
Posts: 428
Joined: December 2nd, 2015, 1:40 pm

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Sponsor

Sponsor
 

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby glm38 » January 2nd, 2018, 5:55 am

Aargh wrote:
musiccitybulldog wrote:I've watched several WSU games, seems last 2-3 I've seen the Shockers are struggling more than I expected.

Ain't that the truth! They're playing like they've been reading the media reports and thinking the AP ranking will win games for them. It's kind of an ugly 11-2.

UCF has had 3 key players hurt. tacko Fall (the 7'6" rim protecter) is back, they're getting anothe guy back right about now, and they lost their best PF for the season. They may only be as good as IlSu was last year, but IlSU should have gotten an at large last year.

Don't look past Houston. They have wins over Arkansas (rpi 4), Providence (rpi 42) and Temple (rpi 32).

The bottom end of the league is beyond awful. Significantly worse than any 2 teams we saw in the Valley in my memory and I'm OLD! One advantage of a 12-member conference is that the top teams only play the bottom teams once each season. The Shox will get 4 games against teams with rpi's ranging from 96-334 and 14 games against teams with rpi 32-103.


Good and honest analysis.
User avatar
glm38
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 2620
Joined: July 3rd, 2011, 2:00 pm
Location: Springfield, MO

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby Shockerfan13 » January 6th, 2018, 11:04 pm

Lol The Valley is about as strong as the American.....right.....

WSU plays:

Cincy (x2) - #9 (Kenpom)
SMU (x2) - #29
Houston (x2) - #42
Temple (x2) - #75
UCF (x2) - #80
Tulsa (x2) - #121
Tulane - #122
UConn (x2) - #142
Memphis - #174
USF - #309
ECU - #313

VS what would be the MVC if we remained:

Missouri St - #59
Loyola - #102
UNI - #119
Bradley - #124
SIU - #147
Evansville - #148
Drake - #157
Illinois St - #162
Indiana St - #168

So we will play 15 top 150 games (10 possible top 100, 6 of those possible top 50) in the AAC.

In the Valley we would play MAYBE 12 top 150 (4 of those games would probably drop below 150. 2 are top 100 & none are top 50)

I will gladly watch us play only 3 teams that are ranked lower than any Valley team for the 5 teams that are in the top 100 vs 1 team in the Valley in the top 100.

And you are a 1 bid league. IF Missouri St goes the rest of the way undefeated (won't happen) maybe they are on the bubble....maybe.......
Shockerfan13
All MVC
All MVC
 
Posts: 696
Joined: August 4th, 2010, 7:20 pm

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby mvcfan » January 7th, 2018, 9:20 am

glm38 wrote:
Aargh wrote:
musiccitybulldog wrote:I've watched several WSU games, seems last 2-3 I've seen the Shockers are struggling more than I expected.

Ain't that the truth! They're playing like they've been reading the media reports and thinking the AP ranking will win games for them. It's kind of an ugly 11-2.

UCF has had 3 key players hurt. tacko Fall (the 7'6" rim protecter) is back, they're getting anothe guy back right about now, and they lost their best PF for the season. They may only be as good as IlSu was last year, but IlSU should have gotten an at large last year.

Don't look past Houston. They have wins over Arkansas (rpi 4), Providence (rpi 42) and Temple (rpi 32).

The bottom end of the league is beyond awful. Significantly worse than any 2 teams we saw in the Valley in my memory and I'm OLD! One advantage of a 12-member conference is that the top teams only play the bottom teams once each season. The Shox will get 4 games against teams with rpi's ranging from 96-334 and 14 games against teams with rpi 32-103.


Good and honest analysis.


glm has almost always (maybe always), been respectful, fair, and complimentary of WSU's success. It just seems like when I come here (and I don't come here often), more and more, the only views of WSU fans you accept are ones who are somewhat critical of the pathway we've taken. While I'm respectful of the Valley and will always have some connection, I don't see how we had any other pathway other than to leave for future success.

There is no doubt that the MVC has had more success this year, than in the past 10 years (since 2006).Whatever criticism you and other Valley members make toward WSU, there is no doubt that we are better off this year too. The Valley, regardless of the successes you are currently having, still are not on a current pathway to have any at large berths in the NCAA Tournament.

I still respectfully wish you continued successes and hope you prove me wrong at some juncture.
mvcfan
All MVC
All MVC
 
Posts: 634
Joined: July 31st, 2012, 10:57 pm

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby BEARZ77 » January 7th, 2018, 10:04 am

I don't think anyone ever felt WSU's move wasn't the right one for them, just as Creighton's was, and Tulsa before that. The animosity toward WSU is how degrading and condescending many of their posters were towards other Valley schools in the process. I felt many WSU posters always talked out of both sides of their mouth in that they always talked about wanting other Valley schools to do well, but the minute they did, they found everyway possible to criticize and minimize their success, beyond just normal conference rivalry chatter. Any threads about another schools achievements were always quickly derailed onto why it wasn't that good, or as significant as WSU. It just became nauseating. And it is such a better board w/o that constant BS.

I've always admired WSU's fan base commitment and the amount of success achieved across their entire athletics programs in the last 10-15 years; truly significant stuff. But I never respect anyone in any walk of life who as they achieve feel the need to sneer at those not as fortunate or who also can't acknowledge the success of others as if their isn't enough praise to be shared.
The Bear is the largest carnivore on the North American continent; beware the Bear!
BEARZ77
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 1984
Joined: June 5th, 2011, 6:54 am

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby bufan741777 » January 7th, 2018, 10:59 am

BEARZ77 wrote:I don't think anyone ever felt WSU's move wasn't the right one for them, just as Creighton's was, and Tulsa before that. The animosity toward WSU is how degrading and condescending many of their posters were towards other Valley schools in the process. I felt many WSU posters always talked out of both sides of their mouth in that they always talked about wanting other Valley schools to do well, but the minute they did, they found everyway possible to criticize and minimize their success, beyond just normal conference rivalry chatter. Any threads about another schools achievements were always quickly derailed onto why it wasn't that good, or as significant as WSU. It just became nauseating. And it is such a better board w/o that constant BS.

I've always admired WSU's fan base commitment and the amount of success achieved across their entire athletics programs in the last 10-15 years; truly significant stuff. But I never respect anyone in any walk of life who as they achieve feel the need to sneer at those not as fortunate or who also can't acknowledge the success of others as if their isn't enough praise to be shared.


I noticed that as well when they were here. They always made me think of a snobby rich guy the way they talked. I liked their program and what they built but some of their fans were only living in a WSU world and nothing was going to be as good as WSU to them.
bufan741777
MVC Role Player
MVC Role Player
 
Posts: 107
Joined: January 1st, 2018, 8:22 pm

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby Aargh » January 7th, 2018, 12:24 pm

It doesn't do any good to raise conference rpi by having the bottom end of the conference move up 50 - 70 points. It looks nice when you look at conference rankings based on rpi, but the only purpose of rpi is for selecting and seeding tournament teams.

A school doesn't get any more credit for beating an rpi 150 team than they get for beating an rpi 200 team. It does less harm to lose to an rpi 150 team than to an rpi 200 team, but unless there are some quality wins on the resume, that will never be considered.

Conference rpi needs to be improved by improving the top end, instead of the bottom end. Then there are quality wins available in conference play. Losing a game or two against rpi 150 - 200 teams is probably an elimination from an at large even with a top-50 win or 2.
User avatar
Aargh
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 1924
Joined: August 16th, 2010, 10:08 pm

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby Drakey » January 7th, 2018, 12:46 pm

Shockerfan13 wrote:Lol The Valley is about as strong as the American.....right.....

WSU plays:

Cincy (x2) - #9 (Kenpom)
SMU (x2) - #29
Houston (x2) - #42
Temple (x2) - #75
UCF (x2) - #80
Tulsa (x2) - #121
Tulane - #122
UConn (x2) - #142
Memphis - #174
USF - #309
ECU - #313

VS what would be the MVC if we remained:

Missouri St - #59
Loyola - #102
UNI - #119
Bradley - #124
SIU - #147
Evansville - #148
Drake - #157
Illinois St - #162
Indiana St - #168

So we will play 15 top 150 games (10 possible top 100, 6 of those possible top 50) in the AAC.

In the Valley we would play MAYBE 12 top 150 (4 of those games would probably drop below 150. 2 are top 100 & none are top 50)

I will gladly watch us play only 3 teams that are ranked lower than any Valley team for the 5 teams that are in the top 100 vs 1 team in the Valley in the top 100.

And you are a 1 bid league. IF Missouri St goes the rest of the way undefeated (won't happen) maybe they are on the bubble....maybe.......


I'm not to sure at what point you selected those rpi's, but wouldn't the valley rpi's be going up once conference play started by virtue of playing WSU, and conversely wouldn't AAC be going down?
Drakey
All MVC
All MVC
 
Posts: 785
Joined: August 6th, 2010, 9:21 am

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby MissouriValleyUnite » January 7th, 2018, 1:34 pm

BEARZ77 wrote:The animosity toward WSU is how degrading and condescending many of their posters were towards other Valley schools in the process. I felt many WSU posters always talked out of both sides of their mouth in that they always talked about wanting other Valley schools to do well, but the minute they did, they found everyway possible to criticize and minimize their success, beyond just normal conference rivalry chatter. Any threads about another schools achievements were always quickly derailed onto why it wasn't that good, or as significant as WSU. It just became nauseating. And it is such a better board w/o that constant BS.

But I never respect anyone in any walk of life who as they achieve feel the need to sneer at those not as fortunate or who also can't acknowledge the success of others as if their isn't enough praise to be shared.


This is exactly what happened.

The board is great this year - and pretty active. There are 4-5 WSU posters who are great here and always welcome. I love reading LanceShock’s posts, for example.
User avatar
MissouriValleyUnite
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 1816
Joined: February 10th, 2014, 9:59 am

Re: If Wichita Left.... (RPI Talk)

Postby Redbirdgrad » January 7th, 2018, 3:14 pm

Aargh wrote:It doesn't do any good to raise conference rpi by having the bottom end of the conference move up 50 - 70 points. It looks nice when you look at conference rankings based on rpi, but the only purpose of rpi is for selecting and seeding tournament teams.

A school doesn't get any more credit for beating an rpi 150 team than they get for beating an rpi 200 team. It does less harm to lose to an rpi 150 team than to an rpi 200 team, but unless there are some quality wins on the resume, that will never be considered.

Conference rpi needs to be improved by improving the top end, instead of the bottom end. Then there are quality wins available in conference play. Losing a game or two against rpi 150 - 200 teams is probably an elimination from an at large even with a top-50 win or 2.


Sigh....
Redbirdgrad
All MVC
All MVC
 
Posts: 428
Joined: December 2nd, 2015, 1:40 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Missouri Valley Conference Basketball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSUDuo, sivert and 52 guests