1st Team All Valley/2nd Team All Valley

[Cdizzle]

If you go by conference games only, I'm not sure Lee stacks up as well as many of you have him.

Not saying I don't think he should be first team, just curious how much weight people generally give to things like full season stats, conference stats, team record, etc.

He does lead the league in both assists and steals.

He's also 7th in A/TO. Pros and cons. I just find it interesting. If the metric is conference games only, I'm not sure Lee is a lock for 1st Team, much less POY.

Again, I'm not saying I wouldn't have Lee on 1st Team.

[Redbirds4Life]

If you go by conference games only, I'm not sure Lee stacks up as well as many of you have him.

Not saying I don't think he should be first team, just curious how much weight people generally give to things like full season stats, conference stats, team record, etc.

He does lead the league in both assists and steals.

Stats aside, Lee is the best defensive guard in the league as well. He is the point guard of one of the two first place teams in the league and he makes that team go on offense. His stats hold up pretty well in comparison to others in the conference, but I don't think him being 1st team will be as much about stats, as it is about all the things he does to keep that team going.

And hell, Adam Emmenecker was POY once upon a time and I doubt Lee's stats aren't better than his....

[UNIFanSince1983]

I guess the real question is do the people actually voting for these things look at all games or conference only games?

I can understand wanting to look at conference only for conference POY/All-Conference, but there is also merit in seeing how a player played throughout the season. Obviously, if you look at conference only someone like Jeremy Morgan isn't as high. As pointed out Paris Lee isn't as good without the non-conference games either. What about McIntosh? Injured for conference games only so his stats will not be as good in conference only. Just interesting to debate.

Also as a real question I want to know why some people think only conference games should count? Not saying it is right or wrong just trying to see what people's reasoning is.

[tribecalledquest]

If you go by conference games only, I'm not sure Lee stacks up as well as many of you have him.

Not saying I don't think he should be first team, just curious how much weight people generally give to things like full season stats, conference stats, team record, etc.

He does lead the league in both assists and steals.

He's also 7th in A/TO. Pros and cons. I just find it interesting. If the metric is conference games only, I'm not sure Lee is a lock for 1st Team, much less POY.

Again, I'm not saying I wouldn't have Lee on 1st Team.

Agreed. I think some of my thoughts on Paris Lee is how important he is to ISU overall.

I do not think he is close to league POY.

[Cdizzle]

If you go by conference games only, I'm not sure Lee stacks up as well as many of you have him.

Not saying I don't think he should be first team, just curious how much weight people generally give to things like full season stats, conference stats, team record, etc.

He does lead the league in both assists and steals.

Stats aside, Lee is the best defensive guard in the league as well. He is the point guard of one of the two first place teams in the league and he makes that team go on offense. His stats hold up pretty well in comparison to others in the conference, but I don't think him being 1st team will be as much about stats, as it is about all the things he does to keep that team going.

And hell, Adam Emmenecker was POY once upon a time and I doubt Lee's stats aren't better than his....

I would contend that Zach Brown is a better defender than Lee. But Lee is very good.

[tribecalledquest]

Also as a real question I want to know why some people think only conference games should count? Not saying it is right or wrong just trying to see what people's reasoning is.

To me its simple.

It's every team playing the same 18 game schedule as everyone else. It's the best way to compare. Nine at home, nine on the road. Non conference schedules are generally all over the map and hard to compare guys that way.

Also its the most recent two months but that's not as big a deal to me.

[Redbirds4Life]

I guess the real question is do the people actually voting for these things look at all games or conference only games?

I can understand wanting to look at conference only for conference POY/All-Conference, but there is also merit in seeing how a player played throughout the season. Obviously, if you look at conference only someone like Jeremy Morgan isn't as high. As pointed out Paris Lee isn't as good without the non-conference games either. What about McIntosh? Injured for conference games only so his stats will not be as good in conference only. Just interesting to debate.

Also as a real question I want to know why some people think only conference games should count? Not saying it is right or wrong just trying to see what people's reasoning is.

Great question, I would say that it should be what you did inside the league. I think you can make the argument either way, but when you throw out conference awards, it should be for performance inside the conference. Plus, not every team plays the same schedule outside of the league, so if say you have a big game against a top 25 team from the ACC, that shouldn't count against a guy who didn't play anyone in the non-conference. Just my opinion. I think you can honestly make a compelling case either way.

[Cdizzle]

Teams play very similar schedules in conference, not the exact same schedule.

[Redbirds4Life]

I would contend that Zach Brown is a better defender than Lee. But Lee is very good.

Zach Brown also plays about 10 minutes less than Paris Lee per night, if he was this elite defender, not sure why Marshall wouldn't play him more minutes. This isn't saying he is a bad defender, because he is really good. I am just saying, he isn't as good as Lee. Watch Lee after he's played 30 minutes, he still plays with the same intensity as anyone on the floor defensively.

Just a question about Zach Brown, and in no way shape or size is this trying to be a shot because I have only seen about 5-7 Shocker games this year, but when I watch him play, he looks uninterested at times...I have kind of felt that way for a while. I honestly thought that he would be a huge 1-2 punch for them with McDuffie this year, but I don't think he has gotten a ton better over the years.

[tribecalledquest]

Teams play very similar schedules in conference, not the exact same schedule.

Well..of course not the same because they would play themselves

But you play the other nine teams at home and on the road.