Who wins in St. Louis

[sivert]

"Less athletic players" is a result of recruiting which is part of how you judge a coach. ...

Yes, that is part of how you judge a coach. I get that. BUT - when someone on here says, "I know Jake is a good coach, so I expect UNI to play well in St.Louis, or to get going on defense more towards the end of the season," they are using "coach" to mean "trainer of the kids he's got." That's what they mean. Unless you expect new recruits during the season.

So I'm not totally opposed to your claim that "coach" and "Coach of the Year" is a combination of training and recruiting. But you have to understand that "great coach" is being appropriately used in a way that refers to training exclusive of recruiting.

[Wufan]

I don't think anyone is arguing that Jacobson isn't a good coach. He is! That wasn't the initial statement. I believe it was that he was EASILY the BEST coach. I find that to be false.

[municup14]

This is my point on who is the best coach.Jacobson is the best coach with the talent he has.
Marshall is a GREAT coach,but look at the talent he has had the last 4 years.Also look at the
Budget he has to work with in a mid major conference,Also with the cockyness of the
Shocker fans this is why the shox are probably the most hated team in the league.
But,I root for all valley teams come NCAA tournament time

[Wufan]

This is my point on who is the best coach.Jacobson is the best coach with the talent he has.
Marshall is a GREAT coach,but look at the talent he has had the last 4 years.Also look at the
Budget he has to work with in a mid major conference,Also with the cockyness of the
Shocker fans this is why the shox are probably the most hated team in the league.
But,I root for all valley teams come NCAA tournament time

Fred VanVleet was the first four star recruit Marshall ever got. Baker was no stars, Cotton was 2, Wessel was 2, Early was a D-III JUCO (but an AA), Lufile, Orukpe and Coleby were 2. Carl Hall and Nick Wiggins were 3* JUCO. Demetric Williams and Jake White were 2.5*. Malcolm Armstead was 2*. That's the 13 scholarship players that went to the final four. That's 2.2* average.

UNI has an average * rating of 2.1 this year. ISU is 2.4 this year.

Is it possible that Marshall gets more out of less?

[Stickboy46]

This is my point on who is the best coach.Jacobson is the best coach with the talent he has.
Marshall is a GREAT coach,but look at the talent he has had the last 4 years.Also look at the
Budget he has to work with in a mid major conference,Also with the cockyness of the
Shocker fans this is why the shox are probably the most hated team in the league.
But,I root for all valley teams come NCAA tournament time

This is why Shocker fans want to leave this conference. Moral victories everywhere. "We do more with less" .. well stop doing it with less.

[Aargh]

Why are we so worked up over this?
Here is how I would rank the coaches in the Missoura Vally Confrenc:

1. Greg Marshal
2. Ben Jacobsen
3. Dan Mueller
4. Gregg Lanseng
5. Barry Hinsen
6. Porter Mosur
7. Bryan Wardall
8. Marti Simmuns
9. Geoff Ruder
10. Paul Lusck

The order is not that important, however at least I spelled everyone's names right.

No, you didn't. It's Porter Mosier.

[Redbird Recon]

Fred VanVleet was the first four star recruit Marshall ever got. Baker was no stars, Cotton was 2, Wessel was 2, Early was a D-III JUCO (but an AA), Lufile, Orukpe and Coleby were 2. Carl Hall and Nick Wiggins were 3* JUCO. Demetric Williams and Jake White were 2.5*. Malcolm Armstead was 2*. That's the 13 scholarship players that went to the final four. That's 2.2* average.

UNI has an average * rating of 2.1 this year. ISU is 2.4 this year.

Is it possible that Marshall gets more out of less?

Armstead was a 3* on Rivals, and Cle Early was recognized as one of the best jucos in the nation and held multiple HM offers.

Chicken/Egg argument gets fun at that point. Are 3 of those guys in the NBA because of Gregg, or is Gregg one of the highest paid coaches in cbb because those guys were so darn good in the first place?

From my perspective, Gregg is the best in the conference whether it's x's and o's or Jimmies and Joes.

[Redbird222]

Your ability to assess is very much lacking. That, or you haven't watched UNI play much and are just guessing off past experiences.

At full strength, we are much better than them. Besides, I'm not even talking about what happens at UNI...this convo was about Arch Madness.

If I had to rank teams I would want ISUr to play at Arch Madness (first) it would go like this:

1. Bradley
2. Drake
3. Evansville
4. Indy St.
5. SIU
6. UNI
7. Missouri St.
8. Loyola
9. Wichita State

And, honestly, at full strength, nobody scares me until WSU in the finals.

I think you are living in La La Land if you think that Loyola and Missouri State would be tougher than UNI...

Only because the potential ceiling is much higher for MSU and Loyola. They both have the players to compete and cause us troubles if our offense struggles (both have a more high powered offense than UNI by far).

Move Loyola to 6, UNI 7, and MSU to 8. MSU is not a great match up for us.

[2livewu]

I've said before, that i think this WSU is better than the last couple of years even without VanVleet and Baker.

This article lists a lot of the stats that agree with that. The biggest one is the 3 pt shooting. This is a lot better 3 pt shooting team than the last few years. Each of the losses last year in the MVC were all horrible 3 pt shooting games. I see that as a lot less likely to happen this year.

http://fansided.com/2017/02/17/wichita- ... haracters/

Let's remember that to date, schedule wise, this year's WSU team is exactly the same as last year's. We'll see if there is a difference in a few hours.

We bag on the Valley, as it should be bagged on, for being shitty, but it's less shitty than last year. Drake's pre-conference nightmare not withstanding.

Last year's Shocker team was much better in the clutch. This year's WSU team really hasn't had much clutch time. Again, we may learn something about that later this morning.

Clearly this year's team can shoot at a very high level, but I doubt when they get back against elite teams that the % will continue. The P5s can guard the perimeter unlike Valley teams.

Guys, give it up. The only metric you can use to say Jake is a better coach than Gregg is to claim the growth rate of success is superior given the disparity of talent. Ben is a really good coach. Gregg is better.

[bleach]

Why are we so worked up over this?
Here is how I would rank the coaches in the Missoura Vally Confrenc:

1. Greg Marshal
2. Ben Jacobsen
3. Dan Mueller
4. Gregg Lanseng
5. Barry Hinsen
6. Porter Mosur
7. Bryan Wardall
8. Marti Simmuns
9. Geoff Ruder
10. Paul Lusck

The order is not that important, however at least I spelled everyone's names right.

No, you didn't. It's Porter Mosier.

I think he was kidding. at least half those are spelled wrong .