Who wins in St. Louis

[BCPanther]

That's exactly what I was saying with your first paragraph. UNI fans like to parade around like they are helping the MVC out, when realistically they have only had 1 year in the last few years that actually helped anyone but UNI out (2015). The rest were all junk and hurt the MVC. If you aren't At-Large worthy, you aren't helping the MVC.

As far as the 2nd item. Are they really that "hot" right now? Sure they have won against the bottom 7 in the conference, but really hasn't been impressive.

In their current win streak they have scored:
55 Points against MSU (173rd AdjD via Kenpom)
49 VS SIU (193 AdjD)
65 VS ISUb (153 AdjD)
51 vs ISUr (12 AdjD)
71 VS Drake (270 AdjD)
61 vs Evansville (82 AdjD)
58 vs SIU (193 AdjD)
72 vs Loyola (165 AdjD)
79 vs drake (270 AdjD)

So in the games against Top 100 D they have scored, 51 and 61. With the exception of the two Drake games (270 AdjD), they haven't really been putting up much offense. Sure their Defense has gotten better, but if a team has a pulse on Defense, it's pretty easy to shut them down.

Only 2015. Really. We haven't 'stolen' a bid from anyone in the Valley. Maybe from someone in a Power 5 conference with a .500 record, but certainly not from anyone in the Valley.

Could it happen this year? Maybe, I think if anyone other than WSU and ISU wins St. Louis, it probably costs one of those two, possibly both. That's probably why WSU and ISU fans are so defensive right now, they know they are on the edge and one slip could push them off.

You just don't get it. The reason WSU/ISU are defensive (and WSU most of the recent year) is because they have to literally go 17-1 or 18-0 in order to get an at large. There are ZERO Quality wins outside of each other. So there is a minefield of 16 games that you can't slip up at all. So when fans of other teams (like UNI) go parading around like they are "helping" the Valley, when they provide nothing more than a bad loss to a team with a chance at an at large, it gets annoying. I'd love for UNI to be actually good, not Valley good, but actually good. Something that is pushing the needle to be a quality win, or an at large. They haven't consistently gotten there yet. ISU did this year.

How does ISU get more credit for this year for being a bubble team than UNI does for two years ago being 30-and-f******-5 and getting a 5 seed? UNI has had 7 tournament appearances and 4 wins since ISU last even made the tournament. You're not looking at this logically.

I don't love how the early part of the last two years has gone but to say UNI is hurting the league is asinine. Two NCAA wins in the last two years and an absolute fluke minute from a 3rd.

[Stickboy46]

Only 2015. Really. We haven't 'stolen' a bid from anyone in the Valley. Maybe from someone in a Power 5 conference with a .500 record, but certainly not from anyone in the Valley.

Could it happen this year? Maybe, I think if anyone other than WSU and ISU wins St. Louis, it probably costs one of those two, possibly both. That's probably why WSU and ISU fans are so defensive right now, they know they are on the edge and one slip could push them off.

You just don't get it. The reason WSU/ISU are defensive (and WSU most of the recent year) is because they have to literally go 17-1 or 18-0 in order to get an at large. There are ZERO Quality wins outside of each other. So there is a minefield of 16 games that you can't slip up at all. So when fans of other teams (like UNI) go parading around like they are "helping" the Valley, when they provide nothing more than a bad loss to a team with a chance at an at large, it gets annoying. I'd love for UNI to be actually good, not Valley good, but actually good. Something that is pushing the needle to be a quality win, or an at large. They haven't consistently gotten there yet. ISU did this year.

How does ISU get more credit for this year for being a bubble team than UNI does for two years ago being 30-and-f******-5 and getting a 5 seed? UNI has had 7 tournament appearances and 4 wins since ISU last even made the tournament. You're not looking at this logically.

I don't love how the early part of the last two years has gone but to say UNI is hurting the league is asinine. Two NCAA wins in the last two years and an absolute fluke minute from a 3rd.

I gave you credit for 2015 earlier. 2015 was great, if every UNI year was close to 2015, I'd be singing their praises too, but its not. ISU get's credit for this year. They don't get it for years before that. If they fall off the map next year, then yes, they are in the same boat as UNI.

As far as your NCAA wins .. those do absolutely nothing to help the at large profile of the conference. Great wins for UNI sure, but mean zip to everyone else. UNI was a bad loss last year and didn't count as a good win. Even if they went to the Final Four, it wouldn't have helped any other teams seeding for last year. UNI has hurt the league (just like just about every other team) with the exception of 2015.

[Cdizzle]

Only 2015. Really. We haven't 'stolen' a bid from anyone in the Valley. Maybe from someone in a Power 5 conference with a .500 record, but certainly not from anyone in the Valley.

Could it happen this year? Maybe, I think if anyone other than WSU and ISU wins St. Louis, it probably costs one of those two, possibly both. That's probably why WSU and ISU fans are so defensive right now, they know they are on the edge and one slip could push them off.

You just don't get it. The reason WSU/ISU are defensive (and WSU most of the recent year) is because they have to literally go 17-1 or 18-0 in order to get an at large. There are ZERO Quality wins outside of each other. So there is a minefield of 16 games that you can't slip up at all. So when fans of other teams (like UNI) go parading around like they are "helping" the Valley, when they provide nothing more than a bad loss to a team with a chance at an at large, it gets annoying. I'd love for UNI to be actually good, not Valley good, but actually good. Something that is pushing the needle to be a quality win, or an at large. They haven't consistently gotten there yet. ISU did this year.

How does ISU get more credit for this year for being a bubble team than UNI does for two years ago being 30-and-f******-5 and getting a 5 seed? UNI has had 7 tournament appearances and 4 wins since ISU last even made the tournament. You're not looking at this logically.

I don't love how the early part of the last two years has gone but to say UNI is hurting the league is asinine. Two NCAA wins in the last two years and an absolute fluke minute from a 3rd.

1. He didn't give ISU more credit than UNI. He just pointed out that the only year UNI was really helping the league get at-large teams was 2015, which is true. In the 2 years since and the 4 years prior, UNI had an average RPI of 96. Outside the Top 100 3 times, and between 70-90 3 times. That's not terrible, but it isn't consistently helping Valley teams make the tournament. It's not about "stealing" a bid from a Valley team. It's about being a potential bad loss instead of an OK loss or good win.

2. Early parts of the year is EXACTLY when teams hurt the Valley. Rolling in to league play with a sub-.500 record and then figuring your crap out is.... well, if only we had a term. Oh, right. It's the definition of Evansville-ing. And for that matter, I'm not sure how much UNI has really figured it out. I saw a limping ISU sans McIntosh, looking ahead to the WSU showdown, handle UNI 2 weeks ago.

3. You could just as easily argue that UNI was a fluke minute from even making the NCAA tournament last year, and certainly could easily argue that UNI was a fluke half-court shot from getting the one NCAA win they did. That doesn't take those accomplishments away, but revisionist history can work both ways.

[uniftw]

1. He didn't give ISU more credit than UNI. He just pointed out that the only year UNI was really helping the league get at-large teams was 2015, which is true. In the 2 years since and the 4 years prior, UNI had an average RPI of 96. Outside the Top 100 3 times, and between 70-90 3 times. That's not terrible, but it isn't consistently helping Valley teams make the tournament. It's not about "stealing" a bid from a Valley team. It's about being a potential bad loss instead of an OK loss or good win.

2. Early parts of the year is EXACTLY when teams hurt the Valley. Rolling in to league play with a sub-.500 record and then figuring your crap out is.... well, if only we had a term. Oh, right. It's the definition of Evansville-ing. And for that matter, I'm not sure how much UNI has really figured it out. I saw a limping ISU sans McIntosh, looking ahead to the WSU showdown, handle UNI 2 weeks ago.

3. You could just as easily argue that UNI was a fluke minute from even making the NCAA tournament last year, and certainly could easily argue that UNI was a fluke half-court shot from getting the one NCAA win they did. That doesn't take those accomplishments away, but revisionist history can work both ways.

You could also say UNI was a fluke 40 second run by TAMU (aided by Matt Bohannon tearing his meniscus) away from another S16 appearance....

[Cdizzle]

1. He didn't give ISU more credit than UNI. He just pointed out that the only year UNI was really helping the league get at-large teams was 2015, which is true. In the 2 years since and the 4 years prior, UNI had an average RPI of 96. Outside the Top 100 3 times, and between 70-90 3 times. That's not terrible, but it isn't consistently helping Valley teams make the tournament. It's not about "stealing" a bid from a Valley team. It's about being a potential bad loss instead of an OK loss or good win.

2. Early parts of the year is EXACTLY when teams hurt the Valley. Rolling in to league play with a sub-.500 record and then figuring your crap out is.... well, if only we had a term. Oh, right. It's the definition of Evansville-ing. And for that matter, I'm not sure how much UNI has really figured it out. I saw a limping ISU sans McIntosh, looking ahead to the WSU showdown, handle UNI 2 weeks ago.

3. You could just as easily argue that UNI was a fluke minute from even making the NCAA tournament last year, and certainly could easily argue that UNI was a fluke half-court shot from getting the one NCAA win they did. That doesn't take those accomplishments away, but revisionist history can work both ways.

You could also say UNI was a fluke 40 second run by TAMU (aided by Matt Bohannon tearing his meniscus) away from another S16 appearance....

That's what he already said. And the point I was countering. Sheesh.

[Stickboy46]

Only 2015. Really. We haven't 'stolen' a bid from anyone in the Valley. Maybe from someone in a Power 5 conference with a .500 record, but certainly not from anyone in the Valley.

Could it happen this year? Maybe, I think if anyone other than WSU and ISU wins St. Louis, it probably costs one of those two, possibly both. That's probably why WSU and ISU fans are so defensive right now, they know they are on the edge and one slip could push them off.

You just don't get it. The reason WSU/ISU are defensive (and WSU most of the recent year) is because they have to literally go 17-1 or 18-0 in order to get an at large. There are ZERO Quality wins outside of each other. So there is a minefield of 16 games that you can't slip up at all. So when fans of other teams (like UNI) go parading around like they are "helping" the Valley, when they provide nothing more than a bad loss to a team with a chance at an at large, it gets annoying. I'd love for UNI to be actually good, not Valley good, but actually good. Something that is pushing the needle to be a quality win, or an at large. They haven't consistently gotten there yet. ISU did this year.

No, I get it just fine. Your two teams, knowing that they are not likely to get any help in conference, went out and played okay but not great in the non-conference and did nothing that you know would actually help you in the non-conference, leaving yourself a very narrow window of opportunity to earn an at-large by winning out in conference. You would have loved for UNI to beat North Carolina or Evansville to beat Louisville to help YOU out but not for their own purposes. You always talk of having to do it yourselves, then do it, beat Michigan State, beat Oklahoma State, beat, well I don't see anyone on the Redbirds schedule that would jump out as a signature win, so anyways maybe they really didn't give themselves that much of a shot at an at-large after all. You both still have full control of whether you make the NCAA's or not. Leaving that to a committee that continually has shown a favoritism to the power schools with a moving list of criteria is foolish.

So rather than expecting our conference mates to not be horrible, we should just go undefeated every year. Got it. Thanks for proving my point that UNI isn't helping the league out. WSU and ISU are doing their part. If UNI didn't tank early in the year, WSU/ISU would have provided opportunities for Quality wins, or at least not a bad loss. WSU scheduled up, but wasn't ready for the challenge early in the year. WSU hasn't lost to anyone bad at all, but has no opportunities left for good wins. That's on the conference 90%.

[Stickboy46]

Boy the UNI bandwagon sure gets going pretty fast.

[TheObserver]

Who woke all of the UNI fans up?

Incredible.

[Cdizzle]

Who woke all of the UNI fans up?

Incredible.

They hung 104 points last week, so they are pretty pumped up right now. It's reasonable. For instance, there were a lot of WSU fans talking stuff after hanging 100 on Bradley earlier this year.

[Stickboy46]

Who woke all of the UNI fans up?

Incredible.

Winning 8 games against RPI 150+ competition (you know the bottom half of DI that is at least 100 teams away from making the Tourney) apparently does it.