Greg Lansing

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Re: Greg Lansing

Postby BirdsEyeView » February 23rd, 2017, 8:18 am

Redhawk wrote:
Wufan wrote:[

He's had good not great teams to this point. He's had athletes, some of which had serious talent. I don't know who recruited those guys, but Dana Ford did bring Fred VanVleet to WSU and Teddy Hawkins to ISUr. Did he also bring in McIntosh? Bottom line, can Miller continue to recruit high level players now that Ford is gone? If he can, he's on his way to having a "program".


That's a fair assessment Wufan. Muller's has been rolling with his first recruiting class of Hawkins, McIntosh, Lee, Wills and Lynch for 4 years now. Ford was a big part of that class and the recruits haven't been to that level since he left.

Muller does have two quality transfers and probably the best recruit since that first class in Clarance coming next year. What might make or break his long term success will be the 2018 class where he should have 4-5 open offers to fill.


:+1:

Throw in the tragic death of Assistant Torrey Ward to this mix as well.

Although Fayne and even Purcell were good JuCo finds..not sure who the lead recruiter was on those two?
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Re: Greg Lansing

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Re: Greg Lansing

Postby mvfcfan » February 23rd, 2017, 10:34 am

I am an Indiana State fan and Lansing needs to go. He's a decent recruiter, but his coaching just absolutely sucks. We get out rebounded all the time because he will only play 4 guards and 1 big guy. It's pathetic. That and he can not discipline his players. B Scott basically does whatever he wants and we have guys just chucking it up from the cheapseats. Our offense is awful and our defense isn't much better. But we've been going the wrong way for years and this year is just the deal breaker for me. How do you go from nearly beating Iowa State and beating Butler to being in last place in the weakest MVC in years? If they were disciplined at all and had better coaching we would be in the upper half of the conference.
I'm just sick of it (and him) and I'm ready for someone new. I mean we're playing on Thursday this year and I have little confidence that we will actually make it to Friday to get our rears handed to us by either Wichita or ILST. Sorry but Lansing needs fired as soon as the season is over. (And to be clear I supported him for a long time, but I just can't anymore.)
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Re: Greg Lansing

Postby All-MVC Fan » February 23rd, 2017, 10:55 am

Having been a follower of MVC basketball for more than 40 years, this Lansing thread is interesting. ISUB is going through a problem that has been theirs for more years than just about anyone but Drake - a coach who is underperforming even modest expectations.

At this point, I think Lansing has lost what little momentum he had in his program from the Odum years. And frankly, I think those teams generally underachieved. But once a coach loses momentum in a program, it is virtually impossible for that coach to get it back. Hence, for the good of the ISUB program, Lansing and ISUB should part ways.

But this is nothing new to the MVC. A team has some success, and in a drunken rush to make sure he never leaves, the school coughs up a contract which is totally slanted towards the interests of the coach, leaving the school virtually no recourse to get out of it. Ahem, SIU, I'm talking to you...among others...

What MVC programs need to do is follow the WSU/UNI model - first, go get yourselves an AD who knows what the hell is going on with your flagship sport. Then, hire a proven winner and give him the resources he needs to be successful. Success begets success, not to mention more money from NCAA shares, ticket sales, etc. (which all grow the pie for the rest of your athletic department). Pay the coach well, but don't give up the farm at the first hint of success, because how many times have we seen coaches have a good year or two and then fall back into the abyss (Ah, yes, my favorite word from the old ValleyTalk board)? I'm all for a middle of the pack MVC base salary, heavily laden with incentives for performance, which can take a coach from the $300K range to $600-800K for good years. Give him something to work his ass off for.

In short, invest in your program to make more money down the road. You don't have to have a Gregg Marshall to be successful. God bless WSU for having, and keeping, HCGM. If you have the right resource allocation and an AD who knows what he's doing, there's always another good coach out there...
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Re: Greg Lansing

Postby BirdsEyeView » February 23rd, 2017, 11:02 am

All-MVC Fan wrote:Having been a follower of MVC basketball for more than 40 years, this Lansing thread is interesting. ISUB is going through a problem that has been theirs for more years than just about anyone but Drake - a coach who is underperforming even modest expectations.

At this point, I think Lansing has lost what little momentum he had in his program from the Odum years. And frankly, I think those teams generally underachieved. But once a coach loses momentum in a program, it is virtually impossible for that coach to get it back. Hence, for the good of the ISUB program, Lansing and ISUB should part ways.

But this is nothing new to the MVC. A team has some success, and in a drunken rush to make sure he never leaves, the school coughs up a contract which is totally slanted towards the interests of the coach, leaving the school virtually no recourse to get out of it. Ahem, SIU, I'm talking to you...among others...

What MVC programs need to do is follow the WSU/UNI model - first, go get yourselves an AD who knows what the hell is going on with your flagship sport. Then, hire a proven winner and give him the resources he needs to be successful. Success begets success, not to mention more money from NCAA shares, ticket sales, etc. (which all grow the pie for the rest of your athletic department). Pay the coach well, but don't give up the farm at the first hint of success, because how many times have we seen coaches have a good year or two and then fall back into the abyss (Ah, yes, my favorite word from the old ValleyTalk board)? I'm all for a middle of the pack MVC base salary, heavily laden with incentives for performance, which can take a coach from the $300K range to $600-800K for good years. Give him something to work his ass off for.

In short, invest in your program to make more money down the road. You don't have to have a Gregg Marshall to be successful. God bless WSU for having, and keeping, HCGM. If you have the right resource allocation and an AD who knows what he's doing, there's always another good coach out there...


Great Post!
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Re: Greg Lansing

Postby Wufan » February 23rd, 2017, 4:25 pm

BirdsEyeView wrote:
All-MVC Fan wrote:Having been a follower of MVC basketball for more than 40 years, this Lansing thread is interesting. ISUB is going through a problem that has been theirs for more years than just about anyone but Drake - a coach who is underperforming even modest expectations.

At this point, I think Lansing has lost what little momentum he had in his program from the Odum years. And frankly, I think those teams generally underachieved. But once a coach loses momentum in a program, it is virtually impossible for that coach to get it back. Hence, for the good of the ISUB program, Lansing and ISUB should part ways.

But this is nothing new to the MVC. A team has some success, and in a drunken rush to make sure he never leaves, the school coughs up a contract which is totally slanted towards the interests of the coach, leaving the school virtually no recourse to get out of it. Ahem, SIU, I'm talking to you...among others...

What MVC programs need to do is follow the WSU/UNI model - first, go get yourselves an AD who knows what the hell is going on with your flagship sport. Then, hire a proven winner and give him the resources he needs to be successful. Success begets success, not to mention more money from NCAA shares, ticket sales, etc. (which all grow the pie for the rest of your athletic department). Pay the coach well, but don't give up the farm at the first hint of success, because how many times have we seen coaches have a good year or two and then fall back into the abyss (Ah, yes, my favorite word from the old ValleyTalk board)? I'm all for a middle of the pack MVC base salary, heavily laden with incentives for performance, which can take a coach from the $300K range to $600-800K for good years. Give him something to work his ass off for.

In short, invest in your program to make more money down the road. You don't have to have a Gregg Marshall to be successful. God bless WSU for having, and keeping, HCGM. If you have the right resource allocation and an AD who knows what he's doing, there's always another good coach out there...


Great Post!


WSU and UNI are great examples of schools that kissed a lot of frogs before they found a prince. Then that prince ditched them. But...they didn't bet the farm on the first guy and were able to find very good replacements.
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Re: Greg Lansing

Postby shockem » February 23rd, 2017, 8:46 pm

All-MVC Fan wrote:Having been a follower of MVC basketball for more than 40 years, this Lansing thread is interesting. ISUB is going through a problem that has been theirs for more years than just about anyone but Drake - a coach who is underperforming even modest expectations.

At this point, I think Lansing has lost what little momentum he had in his program from the Odum years. And frankly, I think those teams generally underachieved. But once a coach loses momentum in a program, it is virtually impossible for that coach to get it back. Hence, for the good of the ISUB program, Lansing and ISUB should part ways.

But this is nothing new to the MVC. A team has some success, and in a drunken rush to make sure he never leaves, the school coughs up a contract which is totally slanted towards the interests of the coach, leaving the school virtually no recourse to get out of it. Ahem, SIU, I'm talking to you...among others...

What MVC programs need to do is follow the WSU/UNI model - first, go get yourselves an AD who knows what the hell is going on with your flagship sport. Then, hire a proven winner and give him the resources he needs to be successful. Success begets success, not to mention more money from NCAA shares, ticket sales, etc. (which all grow the pie for the rest of your athletic department). Pay the coach well, but don't give up the farm at the first hint of success, because how many times have we seen coaches have a good year or two and then fall back into the abyss (Ah, yes, my favorite word from the old ValleyTalk board)? I'm all for a middle of the pack MVC base salary, heavily laden with incentives for performance, which can take a coach from the $300K range to $600-800K for good years. Give him something to work his ass off for.

In short, invest in your program to make more money down the road. You don't have to have a Gregg Marshall to be successful. God bless WSU for having, and keeping, HCGM. If you have the right resource allocation and an AD who knows what he's doing, there's always another good coach out there...


Great post. Keep in mind, WSU didn't start out with a $3M coach, it was a long, building process that started with a good hire, Turgeon. He probably made in the $300k range to start. He did a lot for the program and made the program more attractive for the next coach (Marshall). I think GM started out in the $500-$700k range. As you said, success begets success. Build a winner and the money will follow.
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Re: Greg Lansing

Postby BCPanther » February 23rd, 2017, 9:31 pm

Ben Jacobson made $168,000 his first two years at UNI. This year he will make $765,000 and by 2021 he hits $1,000,000.

Find the right guy, make him demonstrate success, reward him for his performance in ways other than straight cash, leverage your donors to make sure he's taken care of.

Literally every school in the Valley can follow this model.
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Re: Greg Lansing

Postby SubGod22 » February 24th, 2017, 9:07 am

And on top of what Marshall makes, just as important to him was what he was allotted to pay assistants. I think Jans was probably making as much as an assistant than a couple of the lower paid coaches in the Valley. Even before that, I think Tad Boyle took a pay cut to take the job at Northern Colorado.

Obviously an assistant that has a chance to be the HC somewhere is going to be hard to keep, but paying them well keeps them on staff and less likely to leave for other assistant jobs. Keeping a staff together as much as possible helps a HC be successful.

Beyond the assistants thing for Wichita has also been the travel. I believe we chartered a handful of flights when Turgeon was here and we've gotten to the point where we charter all flights. That helps the team maintain a schedule and not having to deal with commercial travel or going by bus. It's something that we can now sell to recruits. He also has access to a private jet for recruiting and personal use now.

But the point is, as others have said, is Wichita slowly built up to these things and the program has grown with it. Maybe other schools can't max out at what Wichita currently has, but they can build upon success if done the right way and grow what is offered financially as well as perks.
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Re: Greg Lansing

Postby BirdsEyeView » February 24th, 2017, 9:40 am

The biggest obstacle that was never brought up in any of the above recent posts is getting the program started in the right direction. That is, hiring the right coach and not whiffing (a la Giac) on that hire. Once you can get some momentum with recruiting and results with that right coach, then all of the steps above take into effect...throwing more money at the program and building off of it.

Gotta walk before you run though and hiring the right coach is step 1, not always the easiest task.

WSU hit a home run 2x in a row, so they clearly had a good judge of talent during the interview process. Do other schools trust their AD to be that good in judging the next coach for their program??
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Re: Greg Lansing

Postby All-MVC Fan » February 24th, 2017, 9:58 am

BirdsEyeView wrote:The biggest obstacle that was never brought up in any of the above recent posts is getting the program started in the right direction. That is, hiring the right coach and not whiffing (a la Giac) on that hire. Once you can get some momentum with recruiting and results with that right coach, then all of the steps above take into effect...throwing more money at the program and building off of it.

Gotta walk before you run though and hiring the right coach is step 1, not always the easiest task.

WSU hit a home run 2x in a row, so they clearly had a good judge of talent during the interview process. Do other schools trust their AD to be that good in judging the next coach for their program??


You're exactly right. Step one is having an AD that knows basketball, believes in its importance to the overall athletic program, and is a good judge of a coach. He's got to go get the right coach. If you flub that, you might as well get a new AD. It rarely gets better...
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