Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Dean Wormer » March 21st, 2017, 10:10 pm

MissouriValleyUnite wrote:
Snaggletooth wrote:
VU2014 wrote:
IF the MVC is SERIOUS then all that matter is getting the best program(s) to help raise the competition level. Raising the level of competition is what the conference NEEDS.


The problem is not going to be solve by adding a team. The problem is solve by getting the league to invest in it existing program (facilities, coaches, recruiting budget, travel budgets, etc) to the point where schools can attract enough talent to win games in non-conference (unlike this year when MVC went 5-57 versus Top 50).

Think about this, after WSU and ISUR - the rest of the MVC was 1-50 versus Top 50.

Agreed. But the 10th program you add has to be one committed. NDSU and NKU have shown serious commitment. Murray has demonstrated 30 years of sustainable success.

Every other option is apathetic and half-assed, just like INSU/UE/LU/SIU/DU/MSU. NDSU/NKU/Murray are the only three who show any try off the court comparable to UNI/IlSt/BU.


I am going to go a little easy on this guy because it is very apparent he must be young.

Northern KY has shown serious commitment??? Had a nice YEAR.

You do realize Illinois State has the longest NCAA drought in the conference, with the possible exception of Loyola? Unless Wichita bolts this year, I certainly don't see that changing next season.

UNI has had 6-7 seasons of decency. You do realize they play in one of the smallest gyms in the conference, with one of the smallest fan bases.

SIU, along with Creighton carried this league for several years in the early 2000's. The overall history of SIU is far greater and lengthy than both Illinois State and UNI.

Indiana State played in the National Championship game, and has made two NCAA's in the last 7 years.

Evansville, after having it's entire team killed in a tragic plane crash, proceeded to make 5 NCAA's, and at least 2 NIT's in the next 20 years, averaging over 10K a game throughout that period. Prior to the crash in 77, they had won 5 College Division National Championships at a time when the College Division included many of the current MVC members.

Please explain how NKU compares against any of them.

There is this thing called ebb and tide. Some programs never are good, most have good and bad periods, and some are able to sustain success and actually propel themselves to a higher level. Wichita is one such program, and is the only one in the MVC that can accuse anyone of holding them back. It is clearly Snow White and the 9 dwarfs, and watching one of the dwarfs claim superiority to the other dwarfs is downright amusing.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby MissouriValleyUnite » March 21st, 2017, 11:04 pm

I root for all the Valley teams. So no, I'm not deliberately trying to claim superiority of one over the others. And I didn't say UNI/IlSt are being held back either - that was the UNI posters. But UNI and IlSt are the only two consistently decent of late. UNI invested in Jake. Bradley invests money in salaries and that should pay off soon. IlSt has a long tourney drought, yes, but 6 recent NIT's and 5 Arch Madness Finals. They're close, they're trying, just keep falling short. MSU is obviously capable with fan commitment but aren't committed administratively with keeping Lusk a 7th year. Yes, SIU obviously has a deep history, but they need to get it going after 10 years now. Don't think I have to explain myself on the others (btw, InSt has made 1 as a 14-seed not 2). I'd love nothing more than to see them all turn it around.

NKU is definitely committed. First year eligible? Top 85 RPI, makes tourney, respectable showing against Kentucky. They have excellent facilities - look at their arena. That's at worst top 3 in The Valley. Look at their explosion in growth in enrollment, endowment, and buildings over the last 15 years. This is paying off in recruiting - the Norse have a 3* 7-footer coming in.

I don't think what I'm saying is inaccurate right now. As much as I love the histories of InSt/SIU/UE/etc, it doesn't mean much if they're not committing themselves right now.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Redhawk » March 22nd, 2017, 6:23 am

Dean Wormer wrote:
tribecalledquest wrote:I chuckle at the idea that the rest of the MVC is holding back UNI and ISUr.


No kidding. The long winters in Frostbite Falls must lead to delusions of grandeur. But hey, I heard they could wrassle.


ISUr went 18-0 against the Non-WSU Valley teams. Not ONE of these games was considered a quality win.
So yes...one would say that the MVC held ISUr back from an at large bid this year!
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Cdizzle » March 22nd, 2017, 8:26 am

Redhawk wrote:
Dean Wormer wrote:
tribecalledquest wrote:I chuckle at the idea that the rest of the MVC is holding back UNI and ISUr.


No kidding. The long winters in Frostbite Falls must lead to delusions of grandeur. But hey, I heard they could wrassle.


ISUr went 18-0 against the Non-WSU Valley teams. Not ONE of these games was considered a quality win.
So yes...one would say that the MVC held ISUr back from an at large bid this year!

THIS year. 1 year. ISU has done the same for most of the last 20 years, and as such has no right to complain about the rest of the league in the one year they are good.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby BirdsEyeView » March 22nd, 2017, 8:35 am

In the past 6 years or so, the only school that can truly say the league is holding them back is WSU.

ISUr fans are just griping about this year, because the league prevented them from getting an at large. 19-2 and being on the outside looking in just shows how far the league fell in the 2016-2017 campaign. Generally speaking, we have no leg to stand on.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Cdizzle » March 22nd, 2017, 8:43 am

The league isn't any worse this year than it has been recently. ISU just hasn't been good enough to care before this year.

"Lack of winning teams aside, the league as a whole is having its best year since Creighton was swapped out for Loyola Chicago four seasons ago." http://kenpom.com/blog/2017-mvc-tournament-forecast/
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby jacksfan29 » March 22nd, 2017, 9:00 am

MissouriValleyUnite wrote:
Snaggletooth wrote:
VU2014 wrote:
IF the MVC is SERIOUS then all that matter is getting the best program(s) to help raise the competition level. Raising the level of competition is what the conference NEEDS.


The problem is not going to be solve by adding a team. The problem is solve by getting the league to invest in it existing program (facilities, coaches, recruiting budget, travel budgets, etc) to the point where schools can attract enough talent to win games in non-conference (unlike this year when MVC went 5-57 versus Top 50).

Think about this, after WSU and ISUR - the rest of the MVC was 1-50 versus Top 50.

Agreed. But the 10th program you add has to be one committed. NDSU and NKU have shown serious commitment. Murray has demonstrated 30 years of sustainable success.

Every other option is apathetic and half-assed, just like INSU/UE/LU/SIU/DU/MSU. NDSU/NKU/Murray are the only three who show any try off the court comparable to UNI/IlSt/BU.


As an outsider, just my two cents since you seem slightly uninformed on the Summit schools.

NDSU is a football school first. They do have a new arena. It is actually a remodel of their old place that was a dump. They don't have a lot of history prior to the move to D1. After the move, it was Tim Miles who did a great job of building a team that would allow him to move on to a better job. Mile's assistant Saul Phillips came next, did the same, moving to Ohio. Now Dave Richmond is there. He doesn't get paid well but has had some success. They play the most boring style of basketball ever seen.

The two Summit schools with basketball history? SDSU and USD. Both were highly successful in D2 and SDSU has been the most successful of the "Dakota" schools since moving up. The Summit League tournament attendance that averages in excess of 9K per session? Those are mostly SDSU fans. The program struggled early this year, but got it together and went to the NCAA for the 4th time in 6 years. With four starters returning, and some strong recruits coming in to help Mike Daum, SDSU will be back into the top 100 and very possibly back in the 50 RPI. The SDSU, and USD Women's programs are by far the best in the league. SDSU are annually a top 50 program. USD a top 100 who won the WNIT in 2015/16.

SDSU and ORU have the highest paid coaches in the Summit. Way above the other schools. USD have a new arena, SDSU are beginning the remodel of Frost Arena in 2017 which will add seating, practice facilities, etc. SDSU is a basketball school first and we commit resources to basketball much better then NDSU. I'm not sure SDSU would be interested in the MVC, we have a very good thing going in the Summit. That said, SDSU has strong ties to the MVC through out AD (UNI) and our new head Men's BB coach (McDermott coaching tree).

Sorry to hijack, just wanted to educate you a bit on the NDSU reference.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby IllinoisState » March 22nd, 2017, 9:13 am

Dean Wormer wrote:The overall history of SIU is far greater and lengthy than both Illinois State and UNI.


ISU has more wins and a higher winning percentage than SIU.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Cdizzle » March 22nd, 2017, 9:17 am

IllinoisState wrote:
Dean Wormer wrote:The overall history of SIU is far greater and lengthy than both Illinois State and UNI.


ISU has more wins and a higher winning percentage than SIU.

This has potential.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby tribecalledquest » March 22nd, 2017, 9:32 am

BirdsEyeView wrote:In the past 6 years or so, the only school that can truly say the league is holding them back is WSU.

ISUr fans are just griping about this year, because the league prevented them from getting an at large. 19-2 and being on the outside looking in just shows how far the league fell in the 2016-2017 campaign. Generally speaking, we have no leg to stand on.


The league did not keep ISUr from an NCAA bid. Losing to Murray State, San Francisco and TCU did.

But your second paragraph I agree with. The other teams have to get better. Period.
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