Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby E-Villan » April 17th, 2017, 9:44 am

squirrel wrote:
municup14 wrote:I'm sure travel distance will be a major factor.Remember,this is for
All sports,not just basketball.


This would be a valid argument if, with the lone exception of Evansville, the conference's non-profits didn't already routinely play national schedules, which typically include not just 1, but often times 2, 3 or more trips to either coast and really any point in between.

I get that a league should make some geographic sense, but it is incredibly foolish to sacrifice the best possible adds to placate one league member afraid to spend.


I'm not sure your basis for the comment about (1) school member. We don't have a spending problem, rather a coaching problem. If you are basing this on a weak OOC, I can assure you it has much more to do with a coach trying to save his rear rather than a cost issue.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby squirrel » April 17th, 2017, 11:06 am

E-Villan wrote:
squirrel wrote:
municup14 wrote:I'm sure travel distance will be a major factor.Remember,this is for
All sports,not just basketball.


This would be a valid argument if, with the lone exception of Evansville, the conference's non-profits didn't already routinely play national schedules, which typically include not just 1, but often times 2, 3 or more trips to either coast and really any point in between.

I get that a league should make some geographic sense, but it is incredibly foolish to sacrifice the best possible adds to placate one league member afraid to spend.


I'm not sure your basis for the comment about (1) school member. We don't have a spending problem, rather a coaching problem. If you are basing this on a weak OOC, I can assure you it has much more to do with a coach trying to save his rear rather than a cost issue.


I'm not talking about MBB at all, but rather the non-profits.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby RacerJoeD » April 17th, 2017, 2:41 pm

I have seen a questions in various MVC team threads asking why a team (in my case Murray State) would want to join the MVC. I can't, and won't try to, answer for any other team that has been mentioned, but having spoken to Racer fans about this, I get one recurring answer.

Yes, the MVC will be tougher. No there is no guarantee that the MVC will be a multi bid league in the near future. Yes, costs will be higher. But here is the issue.

The OVC is a one game league. It doesn't matter if you win every other game you play, if you lose in the conference championship game, you aren't going dancing. A couple years ago, the Racers had an NBA lottery pick and six total pros on a team that won 25 straight games. That team lost on a prayer three. Here is some video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM5APrc_3Yo (notice that blue and gold is the predominant colors in the arena, in Nashville and that Belmont's fan base is much smaller. What isn't shown is that those are the only Belmont fans to make the trip across town, the rest is Murray State fans)

That team was in the AP and coaches top 25 and didn't make the NCAA tournament. Not only that, that team (TOP 25 Team that lost its conf championship on a buzzer beater) got a 4 seed in the NIT. A 4 seed. That means that the selection committee thought that a team that the AP and Coaches thought was one of the top 25 teams in the nation was around the 12th best team not to make the tournament. That Murray State team beat UTEP 81-66 at home, beat Tulsa at Tulsa 83-62, and then this happened on the road...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUH97x-adCc

You see, we have good teams at Murray State. We demand them. Last season was our first losing season in 30 years. We won't accept losing. We also won't accept that when we are good that we can be dismissed because of our conference. No the MVC might not be the MVC of the '90's. We need it to be better than the OVC today. We need our program to surround themselves with teams that care about basketball. We demand that we get better. We want to play teams that demand the same.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Lakesbison » April 17th, 2017, 3:43 pm

mvfcfan wrote:At this point I think Murray State and Valparaiso should both get invites. Both are in good location to be Valley schools and both are usually pretty decent basketball schools. They both also have baseball and baseball by far is the second most important sport that the conference sponsors. With us losing Wichita we'll be down to 7 teams in baseball. (Note that the MVFC is a different conference, but Murray State could also be added to the MVFC for football.)

I'm not really concerned with these two schools other sports. Women's sports, golf, swimming, etc, shouldn't matter. We should be inviting schools based off of men's basketball (and slightly baseball) and that's it. I would be very happy with Murray State and Valpo becoming full members of the Missouri Valley Conference.

My Top Choices as of right now.
#1= Murray State and Valparaiso- Both should get an invite ASAP. As I mentioned above both fit great geographically and both seem fairly committed to having good basketball teams.

#2= North Dakota State and South Dakota State- Only in favor of adding these two if we can't get Murray State and/or Valparaiso. If we can only get one or the other (between Valpo and Murray State) then I'm uncertain as to whether or not we should go ahead and invite the XDSU's. I'm only in favor of adding them if they come together. Adding just NDSU or SDSU would be a bad move imo. Their football is great and their basketball is fairly good. My only concern with these schools is distance.

#3= New Mexico State- Distance is definitely a huge concern for me on NM State and unless we can't get any of the four schools mentioned above we should not invite the Aggies. They seem like a better fit for the Mountain West Conference and quite frankly with them having FBS Football I think they would jump at the MWC first chance they got. Their basketball is pretty good, but I don't see them sticking around especially since they would be so isolated from the rest of the conference.

#4= Others- Besides those 5 schools no one else in my opinion is worth inviting. St Louis would be a good add, but like many others have mentioned I seriously doubt they would leave the Atlantic 10. Belmont supposedly said no again, so that is why they aren't included on my list. Extension campuses (Omaha, UMKC, UALR, SIUE, UIC, UTA, UW-Mil, UW-GB, etc) should not be considered. Grand Canyon is just way too far out, even NM State is a stretch. Really if we can't get any of the top 4 schools or 5 schools I mentioned (add in St Louis and Belmont) I'd much rather just stay at 9 teams for a while. I don't think we should settle this time around. When we added Loyola it felt like we settled (no offense to Loyola). I would much rather wait until the conference improves so that we'll actually be a more attractive conference for future expansion. Who knows in a few years we could be more attractive than the A10 and then we get St Louis. Adding UMKC or Omaha just makes our conference worse and less attractive to legit teams. Just remember that almost every school in our conference has the potential to be really good again. I think almost everyone in our conference at some point has made noise in the NCAA tournament. Wichita and Creighton were good, but they weren't the whole conference. I think that is important to remember.



NDSU does NOT need to be a package with sdsu. sorry. NDSU averaging 4100/game & bringing in a Minnesota market helps as well. NDSU games would be on tv alot and theyd travel to Arch madness in thousands
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby uniftw » April 17th, 2017, 5:46 pm

NDSU has never averaged that many fans

UNI and Drake re closer to MPLS than NDSU

Basketball matters as much as NDSU as baseball at UNI.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby professorbum » April 17th, 2017, 6:48 pm

uniftw wrote:NDSU has never averaged that many fans

UNI and Drake re closer to MPLS than NDSU

Basketball matters as much as NDSU as baseball at UNI.


Distance isn't really the issue. UNI might be closer to the Twin Cities in miles, but not in connection. Milwaukee is closer to Chicago than Green Bay, but try finding a Bears fan in that town. NDSU literally has more students from MN than from ND, and a large portion of those are from the Twin Cities.

Basketball is definitely on the rise at NDSU. Attendance at the games this year was very solid, especially against decent teams and long-standing rivals.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby TheAsianSensation » April 17th, 2017, 7:01 pm

RacerJoeD wrote:I have seen a questions in various MVC team threads asking why a team (in my case Murray State) would want to join the MVC. I can't, and won't try to, answer for any other team that has been mentioned, but having spoken to Racer fans about this, I get one recurring answer.

Yes, the MVC will be tougher. No there is no guarantee that the MVC will be a multi bid league in the near future. Yes, costs will be higher. But here is the issue.

The OVC is a one game league. It doesn't matter if you win every other game you play, if you lose in the conference championship game, you aren't going dancing. A couple years ago, the Racers had an NBA lottery pick and six total pros on a team that won 25 straight games. That team lost on a prayer three. Here is some video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM5APrc_3Yo (notice that blue and gold is the predominant colors in the arena, in Nashville and that Belmont's fan base is much smaller. What isn't shown is that those are the only Belmont fans to make the trip across town, the rest is Murray State fans)

That team was in the AP and coaches top 25 and didn't make the NCAA tournament. Not only that, that team (TOP 25 Team that lost its conf championship on a buzzer beater) got a 4 seed in the NIT. A 4 seed. That means that the selection committee thought that a team that the AP and Coaches thought was one of the top 25 teams in the nation was around the 12th best team not to make the tournament. That Murray State team beat UTEP 81-66 at home, beat Tulsa at Tulsa 83-62, and then this happened on the road...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUH97x-adCc

You see, we have good teams at Murray State. We demand them. Last season was our first losing season in 30 years. We won't accept losing. We also won't accept that when we are good that we can be dismissed because of our conference. No the MVC might not be the MVC of the '90's. We need it to be better than the OVC today. We need our program to surround themselves with teams that care about basketball. We demand that we get better. We want to play teams that demand the same.


We need a fan base and program with this type of attitude and expectation. Others might have the same expectations, but Murray is the one that has posted the most relevant recent results to go with the expectations. Belmont waffling is enough to make me want to move on.

I'm just about sold on Murray St as 10. The question to me is whether 10 (with Murray St) or 12 (with Valpo and somebody else) is the play. Valpo might get St Louis'd out of the MVC. (St Louis is allegedly the next candidate for the Big East, but don't have a chance as the Big East can't find a good 12th team. I wonder if we don't add an 11th team because we can't find a solid option to be the 12th team)
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby mvfcfan » April 17th, 2017, 7:10 pm

Let me paint a picture of what is going on here. UNI fans don't want the XDSU's because they view themselves as better than the XDSU's. Bison fans don't want the Jackrabbits in the MVC because they view themselves as better than the Jackrabbits. The fact of the matter is that these fan bases and teams are already rivals. It's really pretty amusing and that is why the XDSU's should be a top option to get an invite.

Sorry but NDSU doesn't come without SDSU. It serves no benefit to the conference to just invite NDSU and not also invite SDSU. At least with the XDSU's they are reasonably close to Drake and Northern Iowa. Fact of the matter is that I don't think the XDSU's have much of a chance of getting an invite. It sounds like Murray State and Valpo are the top picks right now.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby professorbum » April 17th, 2017, 8:00 pm

mvfcfan wrote:Let me paint a picture of what is going on here. UNI fans don't want the XDSU's because they view themselves as better than the XDSU's. Bison fans don't want the Jackrabbits in the MVC because they view themselves as better than the Jackrabbits. The fact of the matter is that these fan bases and teams are already rivals. It's really pretty amusing and that is why the XDSU's should be a top option to get an invite.

Sorry but NDSU doesn't come without SDSU. It serves no benefit to the conference to just invite NDSU and not also invite SDSU. At least with the XDSU's they are reasonably close to Drake and Northern Iowa. Fact of the matter is that I don't think the XDSU's have much of a chance of getting an invite. It sounds like Murray State and Valpo are the top picks right now.


I disagree with Lakes on this. I'd want NDSU to come with SDSU. But I think you're correct that neither are high on the MVC's list at the moment. I think that's short-sighted and a mistake. But I'm an NDSU homer who's confident in our potential.

I do think, however, that adding Murray State to the MVFC will be the beginning of the unraveling of that football conference. And when the MVFC goes down, all heck will break loose along other realignment fronts.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Redhawk » April 17th, 2017, 9:01 pm

professorbum wrote:I do think, however, that adding Murray State to the MVFC will be the beginning of the unraveling of that football conference.


Why? Please elaborate.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby professorbum » April 17th, 2017, 9:16 pm

Redhawk wrote:
professorbum wrote:I do think, however, that adding Murray State to the MVFC will be the beginning of the unraveling of that football conference.


Why? Please elaborate.


I mispoke. Adding UND was the beginning. Adding Murray State compounds the problem. With UND and Murray, the MVFC requires divisions. That takes away from the allure of the conference and the connection to all the teams by all the teams. I'm also a B1G fan, and I gotta say, the worst thing that ever happened was getting so large and adding teams like Rutgers and Maryland. As a fan, I now have no interest in half of the B1G. That will happen with the MVFC. Plus, the West will be a killer so there will be complaints (much like the East does in the B1G). I could see expansion of the MVFC compel a number of schools to move on--especially in the Dakotas. If all we get out of this is a larger, dilluted MFVC and we remain in the Summit for everything else (which this board has emphatically declared is inferior, and accurately so), that might be enough to finally get the ball rolling on FBS. At least from many of the fans' perspectives.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Lakesbison » April 17th, 2017, 9:59 pm

if MVFC is forced to add Murray State *the 89th ranked fcs team* plus UND, then NDSU/SDSU will just force the Summit to form a football league.

I 100% disagree with all of you saying NDSU/SDSU is at the hip anymore. NDSU is beyond them with Fargo and its 175,000 population , plus sdsu is at the hip with usd now.

NDSU basketball averaged 4100 and if they were in the MVC , I guarantee 5500-6000 sellouts and a great contingent going to St Louis on a Thurs-Sun instead of Sioux Falls on a Mon & Tues.
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