Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby SubGod22 » March 20th, 2017, 9:55 am

As to what the MVC would do, and not should do...

They'll look at and consider Valpo, UIC, UMKC, Omaha, SIU-E. Maybe the IPwhatevers or Milwaukee.

The big thing that got Loyola in was the market, even though they are mostly irrelevant in said market. If Elgin and company still want to play the market aspect they could double down in Chicago or try to get into the STL or KC markets (SIU-E, UMKC). Milwaukee could play into that as well. Do they add a public to replace a public? If so, there goes Valpo.

The MVC may try to reach out to Belmont again, but will most likely be turned away again. I don't know if they'd consider an ORU or Little Rock to replace WSU as a travel partner for MSU. Though UMKC could be that as well.

What the MVC should do is go to 12 and add 3. At least two of those should be the XDSUs. They have resources and have shown the desire to be good and have done fairly well for the most part. Travel may suck for some but it would make the conference stronger. Though there are some that believe the Dakota's wouldn't come because in their current situation they pretty much dominate the field and host the conference tournament and may not want to give that up.

I'd say the odds are, if there's just one add, it would come down to UMKC and UIC. Not saying that's what they should do, but I could see that being the play that is made.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby SubGod22 » March 20th, 2017, 10:00 am

tribecalledquest wrote:
SubGod22 wrote:
Red wrote:I didn't think a school could be a basketball only member of any league?


Basketball only is just another way of saying non-football.


If I'm the Shox I am a little reticent only because the American isn't exactly stable. UCONN and Cincy would bolt in a second for a better football league. I would go, mind you, but getting in bed with teams that want to play "big time" football is a risky proposition for a school that doesn't even have the sport.


It would still be a better conference with more national respect if it lost either. And just because schools want to leave doesn't mean that they will. The XII had every opportunity to do so but apparently neither UConn, CInci or any others moved the needle enough to be added. That could potentially change, but I'm not sure it does. A lot of people think that when the XII contract ends it will essentially fall apart with OU, UT and KU bolting for other Power conferences. Maybe the XII is able to hold on to things and add new members, but there's no guarantee at that point that the money will make much sense for some schools to move. Time will tell.

There's also a chance that WSU could still restart football outside of the AAC and build it up to be added later. Time will tell on that. Bardo has admitted many times that his personal preference is to have football. Not only would it help the campus feel, it's believed it would help us recruit students from OK and TX and help us expand enrollment. Theoretically we could play FCS as we got things going and considering Liberty got a waiver to move up, Wichita could potentially do the same a few years down the road and have some sort of scheduling assistance with the AAC if needed. I've heard AAC fans throw some of this out there although they seem to be split on WSU adding football.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby BCPanther » March 20th, 2017, 10:14 am

SubGod22 wrote:As to what the MVC would do, and not should do...

They'll look at and consider Valpo, UIC, UMKC, Omaha, SIU-E. Maybe the IPwhatevers or Milwaukee.

The big thing that got Loyola in was the market, even though they are mostly irrelevant in said market. If Elgin and company still want to play the market aspect they could double down in Chicago or try to get into the STL or KC markets (SIU-E, UMKC). Milwaukee could play into that as well. Do they add a public to replace a public? If so, there goes Valpo.

The MVC may try to reach out to Belmont again, but will most likely be turned away again. I don't know if they'd consider an ORU or Little Rock to replace WSU as a travel partner for MSU. Though UMKC could be that as well.

What the MVC should do is go to 12 and add 3. At least two of those should be the XDSUs. They have resources and have shown the desire to be good and have done fairly well for the most part. Travel may suck for some but it would make the conference stronger. Though there are some that believe the Dakota's wouldn't come because in their current situation they pretty much dominate the field and host the conference tournament and may not want to give that up.

I'd say the odds are, if there's just one add, it would come down to UMKC and UIC. Not saying that's what they should do, but I could see that being the play that is made.


I agree that adding 3 is the only way to go. Add the XDSUs and Belmont and get this done.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby acepurple84 » March 20th, 2017, 10:23 am

Add 3 schools. Belmont for the Nashville market, UW-Mil if you want another big market. or UMKC for the KC market. Valpo gets around the Chicago market again. I leave off Murray State because they play in a higher football conference now. The two Dakotas would be ok for the football part if the conference wants to go more in that direction. .
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Stickboy46 » March 20th, 2017, 10:37 am

tribecalledquest wrote:
SubGod22 wrote:
Red wrote:I didn't think a school could be a basketball only member of any league?


Basketball only is just another way of saying non-football.


If I'm the Shox I am a little reticent only because the American isn't exactly stable. UCONN and Cincy would bolt in a second for a better football league. I would go, mind you, but getting in bed with teams that want to play "big time" football is a risky proposition for a school that doesn't even have the sport.


If UCONN and Cincy bolt, that still leaves SMU, Tulsa, Memphis, Temple. All historically good programs (well SMU is more recent success). A couple of those are down right now, but probably not for long because they have the support to bring them back. Toss in other good, not great teams in Houston, UCF and you still are upgrading.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby uniftw » March 20th, 2017, 10:56 am

acepurple84 wrote:Add 3 schools. Belmont for the Nashville market, UW-Mil if you want another big market. or UMKC for the KC market. Valpo gets around the Chicago market again. I leave off Murray State because they play in a higher football conference now. The two Dakotas would be ok for the football part if the conference wants to go more in that direction. .

This is a terrible post all around.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby acepurple84 » March 20th, 2017, 11:38 am

uniftw wrote:
acepurple84 wrote:Add 3 schools. Belmont for the Nashville market, UW-Mil if you want another big market. or UMKC for the KC market. Valpo gets around the Chicago market again. I leave off Murray State because they play in a higher football conference now. The two Dakotas would be ok for the football part if the conference wants to go more in that direction. .

This is a terrible post all around.



Personally I do not want them to leave. So who do you want to replace them if they leave.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby VU2014 » March 20th, 2017, 1:06 pm

Belmont is not coming to the MVC. It may be the right move but their President's strategy is to literally run ship in the OVC where they don't have to compete with anyone. It back fired on them this year. They should want to compete and not just want to dominate a garbage conference.

One thing that would actually make sense for quite a few MVC schools would be to form a new Conference. Either an all Private school Midwest conference or try and make a new Midwest conference with the best MidMajors. It would be a pipe dream and vision from schools but could be a smaller version of the Big East.

Midwest Private School Conference:
-Belmont
-Bradley
-Drake
-Dayton
-Evansville
-Loyola (Chicago)
-Detroit-Mercy
-SLU (mentioned in the recent past of wanting to join a Midwest Conf)
-Valpo
-Maybe Oral Roberts...

Midwest MidMajor Power League
-Belmont
-UNI
-Dayton
-Wichita State
-SLU
-Valpo
-Oakland
-UIC
-Illinois State
-South Dakota State or Milwaukee (for the market)

These are all hypothetical and not going to happen but damn would that "Midwest MidMajor Power League" have a great chance to be a 2-3 bid league maybe 4 bid league some years.
Last edited by VU2014 on March 20th, 2017, 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby TheAsianSensation » March 20th, 2017, 1:16 pm

None of the options are great. I'm assuming Dayton and St Louis are out of play.

Category: basketball product:
Valparaiso, Belmont
If you're concerned solely about basketball product, these are probably the best 2 bets.

Category: expanding the conference footprint:
UALR, UT-Arlington, Belmont, Oakland or Detroit, Wright St, Milwaukee/Green Bay, the XDSUs, UMKC, Denver
A mix of schools who are capable of competing in the Valley, and a few that probably aren't. Some only slightly stretch the geography; Denver and UTA are probably too far.

Category: up-and-comers to take a risk on:
Omaha, Northern Kentucky, Oakland?, XDSUs?
Programs relatively new to D-1 and perhaps have room to grow. NKU seems to make sense on the surface

Category: markets markets markets:
UIC, Detroit or Oakland?, Cleveland St, IUPUI, UMKC, Omaha?
Mostly fodder, IMO

Category: nope:
Oral Bob
No.

Category: suck it up and eat the travel costs for the good of the conference you stupid cheap schools:
New Mexico St


Conclusion:
We can take one of 3 paths:
1) Add the best basketball programs, preserving conference strength above everything else
2) Add good markets for TV purposes regardless of the strength of the individual programs
3) Try to middle it between #1 and #2

I don't have a good feel on the direction. I want to add the XDSUs, but that takes us to 11 and commits us to 12. I'd rather stay at 10. Plus if you add them, you have 5 western teams and 6 eastern teams, and now you're pigeonholed into UMKC or Omaha as a 12th. Maybe Little Rock makes sense in this spot.

Does NKU/Valpo/Wright St work? NKU is a wildcard and the schools seem to be on the small side.

Belmont? They might not be interested still. Oakland?

...I don't like it, but I commit to the XDSUs and Little Rock (if you want to argue Omaha in this spot I'm fine). The XDSUs have shown enough competency and consistency to make me trust them over most. Plan B would be Belmont alone. Plan C would be Valpo alone. Plan D would be Valpo/NKU/Oakland or Wright St.

There's also the nuclear option to go to 16 with the XDSUs/Omaha/UALR/NKU/Oakland/Valpo. It'd be the poor man's version of the A-10's strategy: have a bunch of schools, try to get as many of them in the RPI 75-150 range every year to keep the strength of the conference propped up.

One thing I know: if we add UIC, we've stopped trying and we should riot on Elgin's front lawn.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby VU2014 » March 20th, 2017, 1:19 pm

TheAsianSensation wrote:None of the options are great. I'm assuming Dayton and St Louis are out of play.

Category: basketball product:
Valparaiso, Belmont
If you're concerned solely about basketball product, these are probably the best 2 bets.


MVC Schools should make basketball the main priority the decision.

Lets face it MVC is a basketball conference and Men's Basketball is the Bread & Butter and Revenue generator for the Conference. Trying to maintain competitiveness should be the focus.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Redhawk » March 20th, 2017, 1:26 pm

If WSU leaves the future of the MVC is with the MVFC members. They would need to break off and force out WIU and YSU. WIU is decent at football but they might have to shudder the program and possibly the whole university in the near future. YSU is too much of an outlier to deal with if the Dakotas are added.

Then add Omaha as a non football member to get to 10. They have the best growth potential and offer a bridge to the Dakotas. If they want 12 teams then add 2 more non football members from UIC, Milwaukee and UMKC for market and potential.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Redhawk » March 20th, 2017, 1:35 pm

TheAsianSensation wrote:...I don't like it, but I commit to the XDSUs and Little Rock (if you want to argue Omaha in this spot I'm fine). The XDSUs have shown enough competency and consistency to make me trust them over most.


:+1: but would take Omaha over Little Rock.
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