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IF the Missouri Valley Conference wants to maintain stature of being a good Mid Major Conference then we need to Make somethings very clear about criteria for invites.

Most important Criteria:
-Is the School a WINNING program? (one thing to keep in mind is the Horizon is better then the Summit... if you take a macro picture. I trust HL teams more then Summit League teams as invites.)
-Does the school spend $$$ on its basketball program
-Does program have history and track record
-Looking at the current coaching staff (projecting a little bit) are they up to par for good programs

Criteria That Needs to be eliminated from the discussion if we are SERIOUS:
-Market Size (give me a break, we are not the BIG10 & its not the same $ maker & there are no golden gooses)
-School Size
-Stadium Size
-Facilities (as long as they win that all that matters)

IF the MVC is SERIOUS then all that matter is getting the best program(s) to help raise the competition level. Raising the level of competition is what the conference NEEDS. What the confere DOES NOT NEED is a large market school or large enrollment that has a poor track record.

Getting competitive schools is ALL that matters and should matters and if Elgin can't see that then the MVC is already screwed.

VU2014 wrote:
IF the MVC is SERIOUS then all that matter is getting the best program(s) to help raise the competition level. Raising the level of competition is what the conference NEEDS.

The problem is not going to be solve by adding a team. The problem is solve by getting the league to invest in it existing program (facilities, coaches, recruiting budget, travel budgets, etc) to the point where schools can attract enough talent to win games in non-conference (unlike this year when MVC went 5-57 versus Top 50).

Think about this, after WSU and ISUR - the rest of the MVC was 1-50 versus Top 50.

Any one of North Dakota St/Murray St/N Kentucky would be good adds. All have the necessary facilities and fans that travel for sustained success. NKU is on the upswing, particularly with incoming recruits. Made tourney in first year eligible. Beautiful venue. Murray St has an esteemed midmajor history. 29(!!!) straight winning seasons until 1 bad hire caught up with them this year. A couple top 25 teams, couple Tourney wins, and NBA 1st Rounder this decade. Also was a hair from being the first 16 to knock off a 1 in the Popeye Jones days. Racer fans travel VERY well, as do Bison.

UIC/UMKC/UWM and that ilk are irredeemable adds. Valpo has recent success but nothing tangible in the Bryce/Peters golden age to show for it. Valpo will very likely go on a downswing soon in the post-Bryce/Peters era. They'd be a fine addition if their administration had ANY commitment. Unfortunately, their administration mirrors the bottom of Valley administrations. Their venue is horrendous and that lack of commitment will catch up soon.

Bison, Racers, or Norse, and you've made a decent add. Anyone else is a bust.

Snaggletooth wrote:

VU2014 wrote:
IF the MVC is SERIOUS then all that matter is getting the best program(s) to help raise the competition level. Raising the level of competition is what the conference NEEDS.

The problem is not going to be solve by adding a team. The problem is solve by getting the league to invest in it existing program (facilities, coaches, recruiting budget, travel budgets, etc) to the point where schools can attract enough talent to win games in non-conference (unlike this year when MVC went 5-57 versus Top 50).

Think about this, after WSU and ISUR - the rest of the MVC was 1-50 versus Top 50.

Agreed. But the 10th program you add has to be one committed. NDSU and NKU have shown serious commitment. Murray has demonstrated 30 years of sustainable success.

Every other option is apathetic and half-assed, just like INSU/UE/LU/SIU/DU/MSU. NDSU/NKU/Murray are the only three who show any try off the court comparable to UNI/IlSt/BU.

I chuckle at the idea that the rest of the MVC is holding back UNI and ISUr.

tribecalledquest wrote:I chuckle at the idea that the rest of the MVC is holding back UNI and ISUr.

No kidding. The long winters in Frostbite Falls must lead to delusions of grandeur. But hey, I heard they could wrassle.

MissouriValleyUnite wrote:

Snaggletooth wrote:

VU2014 wrote:
IF the MVC is SERIOUS then all that matter is getting the best program(s) to help raise the competition level. Raising the level of competition is what the conference NEEDS.

The problem is not going to be solve by adding a team. The problem is solve by getting the league to invest in it existing program (facilities, coaches, recruiting budget, travel budgets, etc) to the point where schools can attract enough talent to win games in non-conference (unlike this year when MVC went 5-57 versus Top 50).

Think about this, after WSU and ISUR - the rest of the MVC was 1-50 versus Top 50.

Agreed. But the 10th program you add has to be one committed. NDSU and NKU have shown serious commitment. Murray has demonstrated 30 years of sustainable success.

Every other option is apathetic and half-assed, just like INSU/UE/LU/SIU/DU/MSU. NDSU/NKU/Murray are the only three who show any try off the court comparable to UNI/IlSt/BU.

I am going to go a little easy on this guy because it is very apparent he must be young.

Northern KY has shown serious commitment??? Had a nice YEAR.

You do realize Illinois State has the longest NCAA drought in the conference, with the possible exception of Loyola? Unless Wichita bolts this year, I certainly don't see that changing next season.

UNI has had 6-7 seasons of decency. You do realize they play in one of the smallest gyms in the conference, with one of the smallest fan bases.

SIU, along with Creighton carried this league for several years in the early 2000's. The overall history of SIU is far greater and lengthy than both Illinois State and UNI.

Indiana State played in the National Championship game, and has made two NCAA's in the last 7 years.

Evansville, after having it's entire team killed in a tragic plane crash, proceeded to make 5 NCAA's, and at least 2 NIT's in the next 20 years, averaging over 10K a game throughout that period. Prior to the crash in 77, they had won 5 College Division National Championships at a time when the College Division included many of the current MVC members.

Please explain how NKU compares against any of them.

There is this thing called ebb and tide. Some programs never are good, most have good and bad periods, and some are able to sustain success and actually propel themselves to a higher level. Wichita is one such program, and is the only one in the MVC that can accuse anyone of holding them back. It is clearly Snow White and the 9 dwarfs, and watching one of the dwarfs claim superiority to the other dwarfs is downright amusing.

I root for all the Valley teams. So no, I'm not deliberately trying to claim superiority of one over the others. And I didn't say UNI/IlSt are being held back either - that was the UNI posters. But UNI and IlSt are the only two consistently decent of late. UNI invested in Jake. Bradley invests money in salaries and that should pay off soon. IlSt has a long tourney drought, yes, but 6 recent NIT's and 5 Arch Madness Finals. They're close, they're trying, just keep falling short. MSU is obviously capable with fan commitment but aren't committed administratively with keeping Lusk a 7th year. Yes, SIU obviously has a deep history, but they need to get it going after 10 years now. Don't think I have to explain myself on the others (btw, InSt has made 1 as a 14-seed not 2). I'd love nothing more than to see them all turn it around.

NKU is definitely committed. First year eligible? Top 85 RPI, makes tourney, respectable showing against Kentucky. They have excellent facilities - look at their arena. That's at worst top 3 in The Valley. Look at their explosion in growth in enrollment, endowment, and buildings over the last 15 years. This is paying off in recruiting - the Norse have a 3* 7-footer coming in.

I don't think what I'm saying is inaccurate right now. As much as I love the histories of InSt/SIU/UE/etc, it doesn't mean much if they're not committing themselves right now.

Dean Wormer wrote:

tribecalledquest wrote:I chuckle at the idea that the rest of the MVC is holding back UNI and ISUr.

No kidding. The long winters in Frostbite Falls must lead to delusions of grandeur. But hey, I heard they could wrassle.

ISUr went 18-0 against the Non-WSU Valley teams. Not ONE of these games was considered a quality win.
So yes...one would say that the MVC held ISUr back from an at large bid this year!

Redhawk wrote:

Dean Wormer wrote:

tribecalledquest wrote:I chuckle at the idea that the rest of the MVC is holding back UNI and ISUr.

No kidding. The long winters in Frostbite Falls must lead to delusions of grandeur. But hey, I heard they could wrassle.

ISUr went 18-0 against the Non-WSU Valley teams. Not ONE of these games was considered a quality win.
So yes...one would say that the MVC held ISUr back from an at large bid this year!

THIS year. 1 year. ISU has done the same for most of the last 20 years, and as such has no right to complain about the rest of the league in the one year they are good.