AP: Greatest Programs of All-Time

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AP: Greatest Programs of All-Time

Postby squirrel » March 29th, 2017, 1:30 pm

http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men ... based-poll

T-58. Wichita St
60. Bradley
98. Loyola

Indiana State is the only school to attain a #1 ranking and not make the Top 100. Northern Iowa has not had enough polling success to appear in the list either. Drake spent a fair amount of time in the polls in the 1950's, '60's (when fewer teams were even ranked) and I would guess early 1970's, so I'm surprised they did not at least make an appearance.

Former Valley members:

7. Louisville
10. Cincinnati
26. Memphis
34. Oklahoma St
56. Houston
69. St. Louis
82. Creighton
83. Tulsa
95. New Mexico St
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AP: Greatest Programs of All-Time

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Re: AP: Greatest Programs of All-Time

Postby UEACES80 » March 29th, 2017, 3:30 pm

Some unlikely names further down

Duquense (I think maybe the Dick Groat years is where this one comes from)
Holy Cross (I never remember the Holy People being a force and I am 58)
Oklahoma City (Guess Abe Lemons had them rocking at some point)
Seattle (didn't know the Sonics played NCAA as well - LOL)
Jacksonville (the Artis Gilmore years)
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Re: AP: Greatest Programs of All-Time

Postby glm38 » March 29th, 2017, 4:57 pm

It surprises me that MU is 29. I didn't think they would be that high.
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Re: AP: Greatest Programs of All-Time

Postby squirrel » March 29th, 2017, 6:53 pm

Oklahoma City appeared in 11 NCAA Tournaments and 2 NITs when they were in DI.

One of the funny stories involving them and Bradley is that, in the early 1950's, the NCAA was struggling to compete with the NIT for notoriety. Many top basketball programs were independent, including Oklahoma City, and at the time Bradley, which had briefly withdrawn from the Valley.

So the NCAA decided to extend bids to the top independents in districts. This allowed both schools to get into the tournament while bolstering the NCAA Tournament reputation. Until 1955. When both schools, as the top independents in the district, but with losing records, made it. They were assigned to play one-another a sort of play-in setup, with Bradley winning and going on to win a second game, and until the creation of the play-in round with expansion to 65 teams, were the only team with a losing record to win an NCAA Tournament game.

The NCAA abandoned that qualification strategy the following year.
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Re: AP: Greatest Programs of All-Time

Postby Wufan » March 29th, 2017, 7:07 pm

squirrel wrote:Oklahoma City appeared in 11 NCAA Tournaments and 2 NITs when they were in DI.

One of the funny stories involving them and Bradley is that, in the early 1950's, the NCAA was struggling to compete with the NIT for notoriety. Many top basketball programs were independent, including Oklahoma City, and at the time Bradley, which had briefly withdrawn from the Valley.

So the NCAA decided to extend bids to the top independents in districts. This allowed both schools to get into the tournament while bolstering the NCAA Tournament reputation. Until 1955. When both schools, as the top independents in the district, but with losing records, made it. They were assigned to play one-another a sort of play-in setup, with Bradley winning and going on to win a second game, and until the creation of the play-in round with expansion to 65 teams, were the only team with a losing record to win an NCAA Tournament game.

The NCAA abandoned that qualification strategy the following year.


Another interesting historical tidbit involving the Braves. In 1950 City College of New York won the NCAA and NIT Championships. They are the only team to win both tournaments in the same year. The runner up in both games? The Bradley Braves. The following year, both teams along with Toledo, Kentucky, and three other NYC colleges were found to be guilty of point shaving.
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Re: AP: Greatest Programs of All-Time

Postby ShoxNAwe » March 29th, 2017, 8:46 pm

It's interesting that far more former members are on the list than current members.
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Re: AP: Greatest Programs of All-Time

Postby BEARZ77 » March 30th, 2017, 6:50 am

ShoxNAwe wrote:It's interesting that far more former members are on the list than current members.


A number of current Valley schools have not been D-1 beyond the mid 80's forward, even less for some. Not the only factor, but it does play into it. Obviously performance not just duration is a major factor as well. As you can tell by some of the names on the list, if you were a power back in the 40's/50's there just weren't that many teams, so a good run of success then makes for a strange list now.
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Re: AP: Greatest Programs of All-Time

Postby title » March 31st, 2017, 9:11 am

It is absurd to do a simple count of weeks like this, but it serves the purpose of what the AP is trying to do.

Any reasonable look at this has to, at a minimum, deliminate the polls between the modern era and what came before. Basketball before racial integration, a shot clock, and a three point line was simply a different sport.
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Re: AP: Greatest Programs of All-Time

Postby Drakey » April 1st, 2017, 8:49 am

When Sagarin compiled a list like this in 2009 the Valley teams were ranked:

#39........... Bradley
#81........... WSU
#84............SIU
#95 ...........Loyola
#104 ..........Drake
#108 ..........Evansville

Undoubtedly WSU's number has risen since then, and the others have dropped. They also did top 40 teams by decade.
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