Muller to Dayton?

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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Aargh » March 30th, 2017, 11:11 pm

When Muller shows me he can lose 3 or 4 starters and reload, then I will believe he's not in a rebuilding year next year. Marshall has done that repeatedly and WSU has been told in every one of those years that WSU was headed toward the abyss because of all the player losses.

Muller has replaced A LOT of players during his time at IlSU. He either runs them off or they leave of their own accord. Marshall has had his share of player turnover at WSU. Marshall's player turnover seems to be based on playing time. Muller's appears to be players who don't mesh with Muller.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Redhawk » March 31st, 2017, 7:10 am

Aargh wrote:When Muller shows me he can lose 3 or 4 starters and reload, then I will believe he's not in a rebuilding year next year.


Since you seem to have no clue about how the Redbirds are reloading next year here is a quick summary:

Hawkins - Replaced by Malik Yarbrough. Transfer from Saint Louis who was A10 Freshman of the Year with an avg of 10 pts and 5 rbs per game.

Wills - William Tinsley and most likely Zach Copeland. Both quality top 50 Juco shooting guards.
Typical 6'-4" to 6'-6" athletic wings that Muller loves but great shooters too.

Lee - These are the biggest shoes to fill but Birds have Elijah Clarance committed who is likely the best recruit that Muller has ever brought to ISUr. Should start from day one and will be backed up by an
improving Keyshawn Evans.

Add these players with two strong returning big man in MM and Fayne along with backups Clayton,
King David and 6'-9" New Mexico transfer Romine they will actually have more depth next season.
Most likely won't be 17-1 again but definitely not a rebuilding year!
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby BirdsEyeView » March 31st, 2017, 7:22 am

Aargh wrote:When Muller shows me he can lose 3 or 4 starters and reload, then I will believe he's not in a rebuilding year next year. Marshall has done that repeatedly and WSU has been told in every one of those years that WSU was headed toward the abyss because of all the player losses.

Muller has replaced A LOT of players during his time at IlSU. He either runs them off or they leave of their own accord. Marshall has had his share of player turnover at WSU. Marshall's player turnover seems to be based on playing time. Muller's appears to be players who don't mesh with Muller.


Notice only 1 Redbird fan defended this statement. If this were questioning anything about the Shockers, ten fans would go on the defensive and start attacking that poster.

Per your statement, we will see on Muller, but he does reload every year. He loses 5-6 players every season (transfer or graduation...including really good players like Reggie Lynch and Nic Moore) and seems to do okay reloading and competing each year. So there is some precedence that he can do this.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby BEARZ77 » March 31st, 2017, 7:33 am

Looking at most of Aargh's recent posts he seems intent on celebrating WSU's good fortune and well earned reward with making as many parting shots at all things MVC he can. Hey to the victor go the spoils. Just find it interesting to contrast some of the WSU comments to Creighton posters when they were in a similar spot and what a few of them are posting now[ notice I said a few]. It is what it is.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Stickboy46 » March 31st, 2017, 7:39 am

Redhawk wrote:
Aargh wrote:When Muller shows me he can lose 3 or 4 starters and reload, then I will believe he's not in a rebuilding year next year.


Since you seem to have no clue about how the Redbirds are reloading next year here is a quick summary:

Hawkins - Replaced by Malik Yarbrough. Transfer from Saint Louis who was A10 Freshman of the Year with an avg of 10 pts and 5 rbs per game.

Wills - William Tinsley and most likely Zach Copeland. Both quality top 50 Juco shooting guards.
Typical 6'-4" to 6'-6" athletic wings that Muller loves but great shooters too.

Lee - These are the biggest shoes to fill but Birds have Elijah Clarance committed who is likely the best recruit that Muller has ever brought to ISUr. Should start from day one and will be backed up by an
improving Keyshawn Evans.

Add these players with two strong returning big man in MM and Fayne along with backups Clayton,
King David and 6'-9" New Mexico transfer Romine they will actually have more depth next season.
Most likely won't be 17-1 again but definitely not a rebuilding year!


If I wanted to be like most non-WSU posters over the last 4 years, I'd start screaming about how none of them can replace Lee and Hawkins and how ISUr will "fall back to the pack".

I'm not going to because frankly, I have no idea about any of those guys, but this is exactly the type of crap that has been said about WSU every year it seems.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Stickboy46 » March 31st, 2017, 7:40 am

BirdsEyeView wrote:
Aargh wrote:When Muller shows me he can lose 3 or 4 starters and reload, then I will believe he's not in a rebuilding year next year. Marshall has done that repeatedly and WSU has been told in every one of those years that WSU was headed toward the abyss because of all the player losses.

Muller has replaced A LOT of players during his time at IlSU. He either runs them off or they leave of their own accord. Marshall has had his share of player turnover at WSU. Marshall's player turnover seems to be based on playing time. Muller's appears to be players who don't mesh with Muller.


Notice only 1 Redbird fan defended this statement. If this were questioning anything about the Shockers, ten fans would go on the defensive and start attacking that poster.

Per your statement, we will see on Muller, but he does reload every year. He loses 5-6 players every season (transfer or graduation...including really good players like Reggie Lynch and Nic Moore) and seems to do okay reloading and competing each year. So there is some precedence that he can do this.


The only thing I challenge with this ... Is it really a reload if you don't make the NCAA? I mean, ISUr has had really good teams, but hasn't been able to break through. I don't think you guys are happy with a reload that is strictly Top tier of the Valley with no NCAAs?
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Redhawk » March 31st, 2017, 7:49 am

Stickboy46 wrote:If I wanted to be like most non-WSU posters over the last 4 years, I'd start screaming about how none of them can replace Lee and Hawkins and how ISUr will "fall back to the pack".

I'm not going to because frankly, I have no idea about any of those guys, but this is exactly the type of crap that has been said about WSU every year it seems.


You can include me in the camp of those who thought that WSU would take a step back this year without
FVV and Baker. That just shows how great of a coach and recruiter Marshall is. He proved us all wrong
and deserves the extra props for that.

As for Muller he has improved his roster and MVC record every year despite several defections to the BiG.
So the track record indicates he can continue on this trend...especially without the Shockers in the MVC.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby BirdsEyeView » March 31st, 2017, 8:11 am

Stickboy46 wrote:
BirdsEyeView wrote:
Aargh wrote:When Muller shows me he can lose 3 or 4 starters and reload, then I will believe he's not in a rebuilding year next year. Marshall has done that repeatedly and WSU has been told in every one of those years that WSU was headed toward the abyss because of all the player losses.

Muller has replaced A LOT of players during his time at IlSU. He either runs them off or they leave of their own accord. Marshall has had his share of player turnover at WSU. Marshall's player turnover seems to be based on playing time. Muller's appears to be players who don't mesh with Muller.


Notice only 1 Redbird fan defended this statement. If this were questioning anything about the Shockers, ten fans would go on the defensive and start attacking that poster.

Per your statement, we will see on Muller, but he does reload every year. He loses 5-6 players every season (transfer or graduation...including really good players like Reggie Lynch and Nic Moore) and seems to do okay reloading and competing each year. So there is some precedence that he can do this.


The only thing I challenge with this ... Is it really a reload if you don't make the NCAA? I mean, ISUr has had really good teams, but hasn't been able to break through. I don't think you guys are happy with a reload that is strictly Top tier of the Valley with no NCAAs?


Most wins in team history (28)
17-1 conference record
First or Second team left out of NCAAs (warranted or not)

I agree with you, however, we don't blow the first game of the year with a 7 point lead with under 3 minutes to go and I bet we are in. I would say this is a reload given who we lose in terms of players.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Cdizzle » March 31st, 2017, 8:27 am

BirdsEyeView wrote:
Aargh wrote:When Muller shows me he can lose 3 or 4 starters and reload, then I will believe he's not in a rebuilding year next year. Marshall has done that repeatedly and WSU has been told in every one of those years that WSU was headed toward the abyss because of all the player losses.

Muller has replaced A LOT of players during his time at IlSU. He either runs them off or they leave of their own accord. Marshall has had his share of player turnover at WSU. Marshall's player turnover seems to be based on playing time. Muller's appears to be players who don't mesh with Muller.


Notice only 1 Redbird fan defended this statement. If this were questioning anything about the Shockers, ten fans would go on the defensive and start attacking that poster.

Per your statement, we will see on Muller, but he does reload every year. He loses 5-6 players every season (transfer or graduation...including really good players like Reggie Lynch and Nic Moore) and seems to do okay reloading and competing each year. So there is some precedence that he can do this.

While I said and believe it is prudent to take a 'wait-and-see' approach, most folks round here have been yelling 'WSU will fall back to the pack' every year for like 6 years. After Marshall has already proven he can reload several times. That probably justifies a little more defense than someone that hasn't done it yet. Also, the fact that there are more WSU fans than other fans combined on this board shouldn't determine the validity of a defense method.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby DUBulldog » March 31st, 2017, 9:10 am

Redhawk wrote:
Aargh wrote:When Muller shows me he can lose 3 or 4 starters and reload, then I will believe he's not in a rebuilding year next year.


Since you seem to have no clue about how the Redbirds are reloading next year here is a quick summary:

Hawkins - Replaced by Malik Yarbrough. Transfer from Saint Louis who was A10 Freshman of the Year with an avg of 10 pts and 5 rbs per game.

Wills - William Tinsley and most likely Zach Copeland. Both quality top 50 Juco shooting guards.
Typical 6'-4" to 6'-6" athletic wings that Muller loves but great shooters too.

Lee - These are the biggest shoes to fill but Birds have Elijah Clarance committed who is likely the best recruit that Muller has ever brought to ISUr. Should start from day one and will be backed up by an
improving Keyshawn Evans.


This sounds exactly like what one UNI fan said about their freshman point guard this season. I would say that very few freshman point guards can step in and be really solid from day 1. ISU might be better off with Evans starting and bringing the young guy along slowly. I think even Van Vleet was a back-up PG his first year, and Shamet redshirted his first year.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby BirdsEyeView » March 31st, 2017, 9:18 am

Cdizzle wrote:While I said and believe it is prudent to take a 'wait-and-see' approach, most folks round here have been yelling 'WSU will fall back to the pack' every year for like 6 years. After Marshall has already proven he can reload several times. That probably justifies a little more defense than someone that hasn't done it yet. Also, the fact that there are more WSU fans than other fans combined on this board shouldn't determine the validity of a defense method.


Yes, I agree. Falling back was never realistic when the Shockers are continually recruiting circles around the rest of the league.

However, I was just generalizing the attack mindedness of Shox posters who are generally defensive by any negativity aimed towards their beloved 18-22 year old kids in Wichita.

Muller has had to fill some shoes over the years and keep us competitive, so he has done it, just to a much lesser extent...ie - not following a Final Four season. As has been mentioned, ISUr's record has improved each of the 5 years he has been our head coach. That shows progress, despite losing players to Power 5 schools nearly every year:

Nick Zeisloft - Indiana
Johnny Hill - Purdue
Nic Moore - SMU (2x AAC player of the year)
Reggie Lynch - Minnesota (Big 10 defensive player of the year)
Zach Lofton - Minnesota
Nick Banyard - UCF in the AAC
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Stickboy46 » March 31st, 2017, 9:20 am

BirdsEyeView wrote:
Cdizzle wrote:While I said and believe it is prudent to take a 'wait-and-see' approach, most folks round here have been yelling 'WSU will fall back to the pack' every year for like 6 years. After Marshall has already proven he can reload several times. That probably justifies a little more defense than someone that hasn't done it yet. Also, the fact that there are more WSU fans than other fans combined on this board shouldn't determine the validity of a defense method.


Yes, I agree. Falling back was never realistic when the Shockers are continually recruiting circles around the rest of the league.

However, I was just generalizing the attack mindedness of Shox posters who are generally defensive by any negativity aimed towards their beloved 18-22 year old kids in Wichita.

Muller has had to fill some shoes over the years and keep us competitive, so he has done it, just to a much lesser extent...ie - not following a Final Four season. As has been mentioned, ISUr's record has improved each of the 5 years he has been our head coach. That shows progress, despite losing players to Power 5 schools nearly every year:

Nick Zeisloft - Indiana
Johnny Hill - Purdue
Nic Moore - SMU (2x AAC player of the year)
Reggie Lynch - Minnesota (Big 10 defensive player of the year)
Zach Lofton - Minnesota
Nick Banyard - UCF in the AAC


I think this shows the next step is to find a way to make the kids want to stay at ISU.
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