Muller to Dayton?

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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Redhawk » March 31st, 2017, 9:23 am

DUBulldog wrote:
Redhawk wrote: Birds have Elijah Clarance committed who is likely the best recruit that Muller has ever brought to ISUr. Should start from day one


This sounds exactly like what one UNI fan said about their freshman point guard this season. I would say that very few freshman point guards can step in and be really solid from day 1. ISU might be better off with Evans starting and bringing the young guy along slowly. I think even Van Vleet was a back-up PG his first year, and Shamet redshirted his first year.


I am oh so familiar with Panther fans hyperbole about their recruits. Whether he starts or not Clarance should get heavy minutes next year.

Also...Shamet played the first 3 games of his Freshman season and averaged about 20 minutes per game before the injury that earned him a medical redshirt. He obviously didn't need to sit out a year to develop!
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Stickboy46 » March 31st, 2017, 9:30 am

Redhawk wrote:
DUBulldog wrote:
Redhawk wrote: Birds have Elijah Clarance committed who is likely the best recruit that Muller has ever brought to ISUr. Should start from day one


This sounds exactly like what one UNI fan said about their freshman point guard this season. I would say that very few freshman point guards can step in and be really solid from day 1. ISU might be better off with Evans starting and bringing the young guy along slowly. I think even Van Vleet was a back-up PG his first year, and Shamet redshirted his first year.


I am oh so familiar with Panther fans hyperbole about their recruits. Whether he starts or not Clarance should get heavy minutes next year.

Also...Shamet played the first 3 games of his Freshman season and averaged about 20 minutes per game before the injury that earned him a medical redshirt. He obviously didn't need to sit out a year to develop!


Yes, but you also can't say that getting a year with Fred didn't help him ALOT. You saw quite a bit of Fred's hesitation, change of pace moves out of Landry in the tourney.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Redhawk » March 31st, 2017, 9:45 am

Stickboy46 wrote:
Yes, but you also can't say that getting a year with Fred didn't help him ALOT. You saw quite a bit of Fred's hesitation, change of pace moves out of Landry in the tourney.


That's all true Stickboy...but don't you think the Shockers would have been better WITH Shamet last season?

Paris Lee started from Day 1 for the Redbirds so not sure why it would be out of the question for Clarance.
He & Evans should form a nice combo at PG for the Birds the next two seasons.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Cdizzle » March 31st, 2017, 9:54 am

Redhawk wrote:
Stickboy46 wrote:
Yes, but you also can't say that getting a year with Fred didn't help him ALOT. You saw quite a bit of Fred's hesitation, change of pace moves out of Landry in the tourney.


That's all true Stickboy...but don't you think the Shockers would have been better WITH Shamet last season?

Paris Lee started from Day 1 for the Redbirds so not sure why it would be out of the question for Clarance.
He & Evans should form a nice combo at PG for the Birds the next two seasons.

WSU clearly would have been better with Shamet last season. But that doesn't mean he was ready to be a primary guard on a Top 25 team.

Illinois State went 17-16 (9-9) with an RPI of 133 in Paris Lee's first year. So, sure, he was fine. Not out of the question that Clarance could start from day 1. But I think it's fair to be hesitant to think he'll start from day 1 on a team that is going to be in at-large consideration.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby BCPanther » March 31st, 2017, 10:56 am

Cdizzle wrote:
Redhawk wrote:
Stickboy46 wrote:
Yes, but you also can't say that getting a year with Fred didn't help him ALOT. You saw quite a bit of Fred's hesitation, change of pace moves out of Landry in the tourney.


That's all true Stickboy...but don't you think the Shockers would have been better WITH Shamet last season?

Paris Lee started from Day 1 for the Redbirds so not sure why it would be out of the question for Clarance.
He & Evans should form a nice combo at PG for the Birds the next two seasons.

WSU clearly would have been better with Shamet last season. But that doesn't mean he was ready to be a primary guard on a Top 25 team.

Illinois State went 17-16 (9-9) with an RPI of 133 in Paris Lee's first year. So, sure, he was fine. Not out of the question that Clarance could start from day 1. But I think it's fair to be hesitant to think he'll start from day 1 on a team that is going to be in at-large consideration.


Weird. That sounds almost exactly like what UNI did with McCloud as a freshman this year. Maybe we shouldn't just automatically write him off after his first year...
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Born2Shock » March 31st, 2017, 11:16 am

Weird. What actually happened, and what we heard Mccloud was going to be all last summer were entirely 2 different things.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Cdizzle » March 31st, 2017, 11:20 am

BCPanther wrote:
Cdizzle wrote:WSU clearly would have been better with Shamet last season. But that doesn't mean he was ready to be a primary guard on a Top 25 team.

Illinois State went 17-16 (9-9) with an RPI of 133 in Paris Lee's first year. So, sure, he was fine. Not out of the question that Clarance could start from day 1. But I think it's fair to be hesitant to think he'll start from day 1 on a team that is going to be in at-large consideration.


Weird. That sounds almost exactly like what UNI did with McCloud as a freshman this year. Maybe we shouldn't just automatically write him off after his first year...

Yes. Because .500 was what UNI fans were talking about McCloud doing for UNI this year. He may turn out to be a fine player, but the reality is he was a pretty big bust in his freshman campaign.

This is making me curious though. Certainly off-topic, but I think this topic is pretty much over anyway.

What PG has come in to an MVC school and led his team to success as the primary guard (probably starter) as a true freshman?

I'm coming up with Odum as the most recent example, though even that team was 17-13 in the regular season.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby BCPanther » March 31st, 2017, 11:46 am

Born2Shock wrote:Weird. What actually happened, and what we heard Mccloud was going to be all last summer were entirely 2 different things.


Agreed. He was much better in summer league than he was when the real lights turned on. It happens.

*BREAKING*-Fans over value incoming recruits for their own teams.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby BCPanther » March 31st, 2017, 11:48 am

Cdizzle wrote:
BCPanther wrote:
Cdizzle wrote:WSU clearly would have been better with Shamet last season. But that doesn't mean he was ready to be a primary guard on a Top 25 team.

Illinois State went 17-16 (9-9) with an RPI of 133 in Paris Lee's first year. So, sure, he was fine. Not out of the question that Clarance could start from day 1. But I think it's fair to be hesitant to think he'll start from day 1 on a team that is going to be in at-large consideration.


Weird. That sounds almost exactly like what UNI did with McCloud as a freshman this year. Maybe we shouldn't just automatically write him off after his first year...

Yes. Because .500 was what UNI fans were talking about McCloud doing for UNI this year. He may turn out to be a fine player, but the reality is he was a pretty big bust in his freshman campaign.

This is making me curious though. Certainly off-topic, but I think this topic is pretty much over anyway.

What PG has come in to an MVC school and led his team to success as the primary guard (probably starter) as a true freshman?

I'm coming up with Odum as the most recent example, though even that team was 17-13 in the regular season.


That's an awesome question. Odum was also a redshirt which makes a big difference too.

Maybe Bryan Mullins? He was just kind of a plug and play on an already really good team.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Redhawk » March 31st, 2017, 11:49 am

Cdizzle wrote:
Not out of the question that Clarance could start from day 1. But I think it's fair to be hesitant to think he'll start from day 1 on a team that is going to be in at-large consideration.


Agreed that expectations will be much higher but if Clarance starts he would be surrounded by really good scoring options at the other 4 positions (all upperclassmen) and be backed up by Evans which should make his transition easier.
Last edited by Redhawk on March 31st, 2017, 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Cdizzle » March 31st, 2017, 11:52 am

BCPanther wrote:
Cdizzle wrote:
BCPanther wrote:Weird. That sounds almost exactly like what UNI did with McCloud as a freshman this year. Maybe we shouldn't just automatically write him off after his first year...

Yes. Because .500 was what UNI fans were talking about McCloud doing for UNI this year. He may turn out to be a fine player, but the reality is he was a pretty big bust in his freshman campaign.

This is making me curious though. Certainly off-topic, but I think this topic is pretty much over anyway.

What PG has come in to an MVC school and led his team to success as the primary guard (probably starter) as a true freshman?

I'm coming up with Odum as the most recent example, though even that team was 17-13 in the regular season.


That's an awesome question. Odum was also a redshirt which makes a big difference too.

Maybe Bryan Mullins? He was just kind of a plug and play on an already really good team.

Forgot Odum was a RS, which immediately takes him out of the running by my own parameters. So then, yeah, probably back to the mid-2000s when there were several teams that could support freshman guards.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Cdizzle » March 31st, 2017, 11:54 am

Redhawk wrote:
Cdizzle wrote:
Not out of the question that Clarance could start from day 1. But I think it's fair to be hesitant to think he'll start from day 1 on a team that is going to be in at-large consideration.


Agreed that expectations will be much higher but if Clarance starts he would be surrounded by really good scoring options at the other 4 positions (all upper classmen) and be backed up by Evans which should make his transition easier.

'really good scoring options' seems like a stretch.

ISUr was a mediocre (at best) offensive team this year, and is losing two of it's best offensive players. That doesn't scream plug-n-play for a freshman PG.
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