Muller to Dayton?

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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby BCPanther » March 31st, 2017, 1:57 pm

Cdizzle wrote:Forgot Odum was a RS, which immediately takes him out of the running by my own parameters. So then, yeah, probably back to the mid-2000s when there were several teams that could support freshman guards.


Brooks McKowen started his true freshman year on UNIs first NCAA team in 04, but that was only because Mac was required to put 5 guys on the floor. Brooks ended up being pretty solid, but that first year was rough. Ben Jacobson (the player) pretty much ran the point on that team.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Cdizzle » March 31st, 2017, 2:30 pm

BCPanther wrote:
Cdizzle wrote:Forgot Odum was a RS, which immediately takes him out of the running by my own parameters. So then, yeah, probably back to the mid-2000s when there were several teams that could support freshman guards.


Brooks McKowen started his true freshman year on UNIs first NCAA team in 04, but that was only because Mac was required to put 5 guys on the floor. Brooks ended up being pretty solid, but that first year was rough. Ben Jacobson (the player) pretty much ran the point on that team.

Good pull. I'm guessing there are a couple guys from the 02-07 era that might fit the bill. But that's 10+ years ago now.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Aargh » March 31st, 2017, 7:53 pm

My earlier post was intended to support my position that this was the best year for Muller to leave, if he was going to do that. His record next year is not likely to be better than his record this last year. It's been pointed out that he improved his results every year. That gets attention for job offers. If his record next year doesn't equal his record last year, then those job offers dry up a bit.

If Muller can repeat this year's record, considering what he has to replace, then the job offers will continue to flow his direction.

The really odd fact is that the best thing for IlSU would be if the Redbirds dropped behind MSU and UNI this year. That would probably mean Muller would be around another 2 or 3 years before getting serious interviews again. Win the league and go to the tourney and schools with better budgets will be talking to Muller.

I don't think IlSU has a snowball's chance in Hell of replacing Muller with another coach with over half Muller's ability to put a winning team on the court. IlSU fans saying that IlSU will not have a drop off next year is basically saying that their coach is too god to stay with their program. Unless Muller has a REALLY STRONG affection for IlSU. Doubling or tripling his salary is no obstacle for another school with a better budget that needs a proven coach.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Wufan » March 31st, 2017, 8:46 pm

Wasn't a Nic Moore a freshman starter?
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Redhawk » March 31st, 2017, 9:34 pm

Wufan wrote:Wasn't a Nic Moore a freshman starter?

Yes....and a really good one! He jumped to the American just like the Shockers are going to.
Worked out well for Nic...3 time First team all AAC, 2 time Player of the Year!
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby BirdsEyeView » March 31st, 2017, 10:11 pm

Aargh wrote:
I don't think IlSU has a snowball's chance in Hell of replacing Muller with another coach with over half Muller's ability to put a winning team on the court. IlSU fans saying that IlSU will not have a drop off next year is basically saying that their coach is too god to stay with their program. Unless Muller has a REALLY STRONG affection for IlSU. Doubling or tripling his salary is no obstacle for another school with a better budget that needs a proven coach.


Dana Ford would do a fantastic job as a replacement.
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby WSpringsBird » April 1st, 2017, 5:52 am

Redhawk wrote:
Wufan wrote:Wasn't a Nic Moore a freshman starter?

Yes....and a really good one! He jumped to the American just like the Shockers are going to.
Worked out well for Nic...3 time First team all AAC, 2 time Player of the Year!


Yeah, I was thinking of him as well. 10 ppg and 3.9 apg as a freshman. However, even he was pretty up and down during his freshman year. He really caught fire at the end of the year, but during the season there were games in which he disappeared. He was also a bit of a defensive liability. Mind you, I (obviously!) would have loved to have kept him, but if he's the best true freshman PG in the MVC over the past decade--and even he was pretty up and down, and fell short of making the tournament--it shows that it's a lot to ask for Clarance or anyone else to come in and lead the team to a tourney during his first year. (I do think Clarance will ultimately be a real impact player, but we should expect some growing pains during Year 1.)
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Wufan » April 1st, 2017, 6:14 am

WSpringsBird wrote:
Redhawk wrote:
Wufan wrote:Wasn't a Nic Moore a freshman starter?

Yes....and a really good one! He jumped to the American just like the Shockers are going to.
Worked out well for Nic...3 time First team all AAC, 2 time Player of the Year!


Yeah, I was thinking of him as well. 10 ppg and 3.9 apg as a freshman. However, even he was pretty up and down during his freshman year. He really caught fire at the end of the year, but during the season there were games in which he disappeared. He was also a bit of a defensive liability. Mind you, I (obviously!) would have loved to have kept him, but if he's the best true freshman PG in the MVC over the past decade--and even he was pretty up and down, and fell short of making the tournament--it shows that it's a lot to ask for Clarance or anyone else to come in and lead the team to a tourney during his first year. (I do think Clarance will ultimately be a real impact player, but we should expect some growing pains during Year 1.)


I remember a quote from Nic's freshman year: ISU was playing the Shockers and during or after the game Marshall asked Dana Ford if our guy was that good. Dana was the lead recruiter of soon to be freshman Fred VanVleet. Dana had one word for Marshall: "Better."
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Wufan » April 1st, 2017, 6:21 am

Another good quote from that time:

Fred's recruiting had really picked up after his senior season and Illinois, Kansas, and others came calling to see if his commitment to WSU was solid. Amongst the excitement, Fred was interviewed by a Chicago paper and he responded with something like this; "I will be a Shocker next year. WSU saw something in me that these other programs didn't. If they want me to start, I will start. If they want me to come off the bench, I will come off the bench, if they want me on the scout team, then I will do that and pick up towels after practice too."
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby WSpringsBird » April 1st, 2017, 6:48 am

Wufan wrote:Another good quote from that time:

Fred's recruiting had really picked up after his senior season and Illinois, Kansas, and others came calling to see if his commitment to WSU was solid. Amongst the excitement, Fred was interviewed by a Chicago paper and he responded with something like this; "I will be a Shocker next year. WSU saw something in me that these other programs didn't. If they want me to start, I will start. If they want me to come off the bench, I will come off the bench, if they want me on the scout team, then I will do that and pick up towels after practice too."


Awesome quote. He certainly exhibited that sort of attitude when he played.

By the way, I agree with you that Fred ultimately became a better player than Nic Moore. I would love to have either one of them next year, though!
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Wufan » April 1st, 2017, 6:58 am

Here's the actual quote:

“I’ll be whatever they tell me to be. I’m just going to go in there and do what the coach says. If they need me to lay towels on the bench, that’s what I’m going to so whatever they tell me.”
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Re: Muller to Dayton?

Postby Redhawk » April 1st, 2017, 7:20 am

WSpringsBird wrote:
Yeah, I was thinking of him as well. 10 ppg and 3.9 apg as a freshman. However, even he was pretty up and down during his freshman year. He really caught fire at the end of the year, but during the season there were games in which he disappeared. He was also a bit of a defensive liability. Mind you, I (obviously!) would have loved to have kept him, but if he's the best true freshman PG in the MVC over the past decade--and even he was pretty up and down, and fell short of making the tournament--it shows that it's a lot to ask for Clarance or anyone else to come in and lead the team to a tourney during his first year. (I do think Clarance will ultimately be a real impact player, but we should expect some growing pains during Year 1.)


No doubt Clarence will have growing pains. That's where having Evans as a backup will be so beneficial
to him and the team.
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