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BCPanther wrote:

Cdizzle wrote:WSU clearly would have been better with Shamet last season. But that doesn't mean he was ready to be a primary guard on a Top 25 team.

Illinois State went 17-16 (9-9) with an RPI of 133 in Paris Lee's first year. So, sure, he was fine. Not out of the question that Clarance could start from day 1. But I think it's fair to be hesitant to think he'll start from day 1 on a team that is going to be in at-large consideration.

Weird. That sounds almost exactly like what UNI did with McCloud as a freshman this year. Maybe we shouldn't just automatically write him off after his first year...

Yes. Because .500 was what UNI fans were talking about McCloud doing for UNI this year. He may turn out to be a fine player, but the reality is he was a pretty big bust in his freshman campaign.

This is making me curious though. Certainly off-topic, but I think this topic is pretty much over anyway.

What PG has come in to an MVC school and led his team to success as the primary guard (probably starter) as a true freshman?

I'm coming up with Odum as the most recent example, though even that team was 17-13 in the regular season.

Born2Shock wrote:Weird. What actually happened, and what we heard Mccloud was going to be all last summer were entirely 2 different things.

Agreed. He was much better in summer league than he was when the real lights turned on. It happens.

*BREAKING*-Fans over value incoming recruits for their own teams.

Cdizzle wrote:

BCPanther wrote:

Cdizzle wrote:WSU clearly would have been better with Shamet last season. But that doesn't mean he was ready to be a primary guard on a Top 25 team.

Illinois State went 17-16 (9-9) with an RPI of 133 in Paris Lee's first year. So, sure, he was fine. Not out of the question that Clarance could start from day 1. But I think it's fair to be hesitant to think he'll start from day 1 on a team that is going to be in at-large consideration.

Weird. That sounds almost exactly like what UNI did with McCloud as a freshman this year. Maybe we shouldn't just automatically write him off after his first year...

Yes. Because .500 was what UNI fans were talking about McCloud doing for UNI this year. He may turn out to be a fine player, but the reality is he was a pretty big bust in his freshman campaign.

This is making me curious though. Certainly off-topic, but I think this topic is pretty much over anyway.

What PG has come in to an MVC school and led his team to success as the primary guard (probably starter) as a true freshman?

I'm coming up with Odum as the most recent example, though even that team was 17-13 in the regular season.

That's an awesome question. Odum was also a redshirt which makes a big difference too.

Maybe Bryan Mullins? He was just kind of a plug and play on an already really good team.

Cdizzle wrote:
Not out of the question that Clarance could start from day 1. But I think it's fair to be hesitant to think he'll start from day 1 on a team that is going to be in at-large consideration.

Agreed that expectations will be much higher but if Clarance starts he would be surrounded by really good scoring options at the other 4 positions (all upperclassmen) and be backed up by Evans which should make his transition easier.

BCPanther wrote:

Cdizzle wrote:

BCPanther wrote:Weird. That sounds almost exactly like what UNI did with McCloud as a freshman this year. Maybe we shouldn't just automatically write him off after his first year...

Yes. Because .500 was what UNI fans were talking about McCloud doing for UNI this year. He may turn out to be a fine player, but the reality is he was a pretty big bust in his freshman campaign.

This is making me curious though. Certainly off-topic, but I think this topic is pretty much over anyway.

What PG has come in to an MVC school and led his team to success as the primary guard (probably starter) as a true freshman?

I'm coming up with Odum as the most recent example, though even that team was 17-13 in the regular season.

That's an awesome question. Odum was also a redshirt which makes a big difference too.

Maybe Bryan Mullins? He was just kind of a plug and play on an already really good team.

Forgot Odum was a RS, which immediately takes him out of the running by my own parameters. So then, yeah, probably back to the mid-2000s when there were several teams that could support freshman guards.

Redhawk wrote:

Cdizzle wrote:
Not out of the question that Clarance could start from day 1. But I think it's fair to be hesitant to think he'll start from day 1 on a team that is going to be in at-large consideration.

Agreed that expectations will be much higher but if Clarance starts he would be surrounded by really good scoring options at the other 4 positions (all upper classmen) and be backed up by Evans which should make his transition easier.

'really good scoring options' seems like a stretch.

ISUr was a mediocre (at best) offensive team this year, and is losing two of it's best offensive players. That doesn't scream plug-n-play for a freshman PG.

Cdizzle wrote:Forgot Odum was a RS, which immediately takes him out of the running by my own parameters. So then, yeah, probably back to the mid-2000s when there were several teams that could support freshman guards.

Brooks McKowen started his true freshman year on UNIs first NCAA team in 04, but that was only because Mac was required to put 5 guys on the floor. Brooks ended up being pretty solid, but that first year was rough. Ben Jacobson (the player) pretty much ran the point on that team.

BCPanther wrote:

Cdizzle wrote:Forgot Odum was a RS, which immediately takes him out of the running by my own parameters. So then, yeah, probably back to the mid-2000s when there were several teams that could support freshman guards.

Brooks McKowen started his true freshman year on UNIs first NCAA team in 04, but that was only because Mac was required to put 5 guys on the floor. Brooks ended up being pretty solid, but that first year was rough. Ben Jacobson (the player) pretty much ran the point on that team.

Good pull. I'm guessing there are a couple guys from the 02-07 era that might fit the bill. But that's 10+ years ago now.

My earlier post was intended to support my position that this was the best year for Muller to leave, if he was going to do that. His record next year is not likely to be better than his record this last year. It's been pointed out that he improved his results every year. That gets attention for job offers. If his record next year doesn't equal his record last year, then those job offers dry up a bit.

If Muller can repeat this year's record, considering what he has to replace, then the job offers will continue to flow his direction.

The really odd fact is that the best thing for IlSU would be if the Redbirds dropped behind MSU and UNI this year. That would probably mean Muller would be around another 2 or 3 years before getting serious interviews again. Win the league and go to the tourney and schools with better budgets will be talking to Muller.

I don't think IlSU has a snowball's chance in Hell of replacing Muller with another coach with over half Muller's ability to put a winning team on the court. IlSU fans saying that IlSU will not have a drop off next year is basically saying that their coach is too god to stay with their program. Unless Muller has a REALLY STRONG affection for IlSU. Doubling or tripling his salary is no obstacle for another school with a better budget that needs a proven coach.

Wasn't a Nic Moore a freshman starter?