MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team league

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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby TheAsianSensation » April 29th, 2017, 2:18 pm

By the way, what exactly are the terms of our ESPN deal?

I think there's about 8 years left on the overall deal (with a lot of ESPN3 coverage), and part of that has been about 15-20 ESPN/2/U games a year. But that contract was written with Wichita in mind, who gobbled up most of those appearances. Is there an out clause in that contract, or some wiggle room? I'm not sure ESPN would be thrilled with 15 non-Wichita games they'd be obligated to show.
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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby RacerJoeD » April 29th, 2017, 3:02 pm

TL;DR

Let us play "Reducto Ad Absurdum"

I would bet that if market size is the most important factor in MVC expansion, let's forget the small potatoes and look at big markets.

St Francis
LIU Brooklyn
Loyola Md
IUPUI
Coppin State
UMBC
St Peters
Portland State
Chicago State

I mean, these should be your targets.

In order here are their market sizes

1
1
26
25
26
7
1
22
3

Those are major markets. Compared to Omaha (76), Kansas City (31), Milwaukee (35), those are huge markets. Alas there is a very small problem.

Here are the average attendances for these teams in order.

487
1163
753
1055
950
970
479
662
1091

But I'm sure they will grow into their place in the MVC. ;)
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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby Dawgbit » April 29th, 2017, 3:38 pm

RacerJoeD wrote:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8OeZ7S8x3Y

https://youtu.be/0FQj9u8-kOY
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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby PantherU » April 29th, 2017, 3:45 pm

Markets absolutely matter for the MVC. But not for television. Adding a school based on its television market it foolhardy, because none of the schools that are in the big television markets bring an audience that watches the teams on TV except maybe once or twice a year - for instance, we had a pretty sizable Milwaukee audience for the 2014 HLT title game. That doesn't mean our TV market should be a reason to add us.

What does matter, however, is the recruiting market. Adding Loyola did not bring a bunch of TV viewers to help negotiate the next TV contract. Loyola did bring MVC teams the opportunity to tell Chicago-based recruits that their families will be able to see them play at least once a year without leaving town. This is why UMKC was in the discussion, however brief they may have been in it. Kansas City is a recruiting area that the MVC figures to lose a bit of a hold on without Wichita State. That may not result in any recruits lost next year. Conservatively let's say it's just one or two recruits collectively over five years. UMKC drops off for many other reasons.

Milwaukee? We've got a fertile recruiting ground as well, with a lot of recruits from high-majors in D-I to NAIA D-II level players. Mid-majors have been carried by players from this town. And MVC schools have never had a strong hold on the city. The list of Greater Milwaukee kids going to MVC schools isn't exactly long...Steve McWhorter, Reed Timmer, Juwan McCloud, Chip Rank, D'Angalo Jackson. If I'm missing any please feel free to add them. Dozens of high school players from Greater Milwaukee will play all over mid-majors, high-majors, low-majors in the next several years. Adding Milwaukee to the conference gets MVC schools an in-road into this fertile recrutiing ground.

That's how market comes into play. TV shouldn't come into play.

One more thing: Milwaukee and Valparaiso are both short drives from Chicago. So coaches can use that with recruits as well. This is obviously true for UIC, and they're probably going to be closer to more recruits than Loyola. I wanted to say that just so Big D doesn't think I'm laying "bait" hahaha!

Obviously none of this is going to be the reason a kid commits. But each and every small advantage is worth it, and being able to play in front of family and friends is important to a lot of kids.

Milwaukee Fun Fact: Panther Arena, which was built as Milwaukee Arena in 1950, was the first basketball arena to be built to accommodate television production.
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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby Dawgbit » April 29th, 2017, 4:00 pm

jacksfan29 wrote:
Bjhracer wrote:
Dawgbit wrote:Some poster on here was curious as to my "vendetta" with Murray State. Let me help you out.

SIU quit playing Murray State in football about 10 years or so, based upon a decision by our A.D. after a game at Murray, where their players were absolute thugs. SIU had a running get a broken leg in that game. The Murray players were taunting SIU with "we f****d up your running back, great sportsmanship. Our AD at the time, who is now the AD at Colorado State said "enough". Their basketball program used to be coached by that snotty-nosed Mick Cronin, who routinely looked for cast-off thugs transfers (google Keith Jennifer) from other programs. Cronin is now at Cincinnati, speaks volumes. I have a friend who went to Murray on an athletic scholarship who had a run in with Mr Jennifer, who I have reason to believe may be in prison as we speak, so the way Murray runs their programs does not sit well with me. And there is no benefit to Wichita State leaving the MVC, you can try to pretty it up if you want. Instead of the league playing down to Murray and Valpo we should be striving to playing up to the likes of Wichita State, Creighton, and other members like SIU, Northern Iowa who have fielded very good teams that DEMONSTRATED POST SEASON SUCCESS.


Its nice you bring up things that allegedly happened over a decade ago. Murray runs a clean program, we graduate student athletes and the university does not condone or cover up and erratic behavior. Mr. Jenifer that you speak of did get arrested while here and was subsequently suspended. It was for possession of marijuana. Im sure no SIU players over the last decade has smoked pot. Guess you got one on us there. My inclination is that you just don't want to get beat by the Racers and don't want the healthy competition.

That's fine. Go ahead add UMKC and Omaha and see how fast your overall conference rpi drops. If you want multi bids and healthy competition the Racers are the obvious choice.


Not my fight but I think its funny that a Murray St fan wants to talk about lowering the MVC RPI when you were 230 last year and 170 the prior year? In fact, if you look at Murray St over the past 5 years...

2016-17 230
2015-16 170
2014-15 64
2013-14 144
2012-13 113

Really not anything to write home about in there. The 64 is ok but followed by the 170 and 230? Not a good trend.

How dare you spoil a good story with facts! Murray fans live in a very small universe, you must temember that! Another question, if they have been such a kick A program, for sooo long, why did lowly SIU get the MVC invite back from n 1975, and not Murray ? BTW, SIU beat Arizona two years later to advance to their first Sweet 16, which seems to have Murray throughout their "rich tradition ".
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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby Dawgbit » April 29th, 2017, 4:19 pm

Bjhracer wrote:
Dawgbit wrote:Some poster on here was curious as to my "vendetta" with Murray State. Let me help you out.

SIU quit playing Murray State in football about 10 years or so, based upon a decision by our A.D. after a game at Murray, where their players were absolute thugs. SIU had a running get a broken leg in that game. The Murray players were taunting SIU with "we f****d up your running back, great sportsmanship. Our AD at the time, who is now the AD at Colorado State said "enough". Their basketball program used to be coached by that snotty-nosed Mick Cronin, who routinely looked for cast-off thugs transfers (google Keith Jennifer) from other programs. Cronin is now at Cincinnati, speaks volumes. I have a friend who went to Murray on an athletic scholarship who had a run in with Mr Jennifer, who I have reason to believe may be in prison as we speak, so the way Murray runs their programs does not sit well with me. And there is no benefit to Wichita State leaving the MVC, you can try to pretty it up if you want. Instead of the league playing down to Murray and Valpo we should be striving to playing up to the likes of Wichita State, Creighton, and other members like SIU, Northern Iowa who have fielded very good teams that DEMONSTRATED POST SEASON SUCCESS.


Its nice you bring up things that allegedly happened over a decade ago. Murray runs a clean program, we graduate student athletes and the university does not condone or cover up and erratic behavior. Mr. Jenifer that you speak of did get arrested while here and was subsequently suspended. It was for possession of marijuana. Im sure no SIU players over the last decade has smoked pot. Guess you got one on us there. My inclination is that you just don't want to get beat by the Racers and don't want the healthy competition.

That's fine. Go ahead add UMKC and Omaha and see how fast your overall conference rpi drops. If you want multi bids and healthy competition the Racers are the obvious choice.

Keith Jennifer was shown the door at VA for assaulting a couple who were out for a stroll. 5 years for possession? Haha. http://www.yardbarker.com/mobile/conten ... 9_14191655
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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby ValpoTX » April 29th, 2017, 4:27 pm

Dawgbit wrote:
RacerJoeD wrote:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8OeZ7S8x3Y

https://youtu.be/0FQj9u8-kOY


Anyone else see the random Valpo fan at 22 seconds in? That is awesome :buddies:
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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby RacerJoeD » April 29th, 2017, 4:43 pm

Dawgbit, was it difficult awakening from your ten year coma?
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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby Dawgbit » April 29th, 2017, 5:29 pm

RacerJoeD wrote:Dawgbit, was it difficult awakening from your ten year coma?



Please tell me what Murray has accomplished post season. It really doesn't matter that you get to beat up on the likes of SEMO, Tennessee Tech, St, Eastern Illinois, et al, to pad your glorious win/loss record. Until you accomplish something post-season, no one, on a national basis, cares. Did I somehow miss the ESPN Gameday at Murray? Like it or not, you guys have a lot to prove. Talk is cheap.
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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby RacerJoeD » April 29th, 2017, 5:40 pm

Well, in the past ten years we have won games in the NCAA tournament, made an NIT quarterfinal, won the CIT, had an NBA lottery pick, a Lute Olsen National Player of the Year, 2 All Americans, been in the Top 25 for both the AP and Coaches polls over two years, including a period in both the AP and Coaches top 10.

But compared to what Coach Hinson has done at SIU I'm sure that isn't all that impressive.

However, would you care to comment on the following articles?

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basket ... n-illinois

https://www.google.com/amp/www.buckys5t ... ond-taylor

http://www.14news.com/story/12829801/fo ... =printable

http://www.hoopsvibe.com/features/40377 ... ll-players

http://thesouthern.com/news/local/crime ... 03286.html

http://dailyegyptian.com/65039/sports/b ... ty-review/
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