MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team league

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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby TheAsianSensation » April 7th, 2017, 2:00 pm

havoc wrote:
TheAsianSensation wrote:As a comparison, the MAAC has a 20 game conference schedule, and I'd argue it cost Manhattan an at-large bid in 2016, and maybe a couple others this decade as well.


I'm guessing you mean Monmouth as I can't imagine the 6th place team in the MAAC is typically in at-large contention.

It is all hypothetical as you don't know who Monmouth would have scheduled in place of 2 MAAC games. However, I don't see many fans of current MVC schools being upset at the prospects of playing a non-conference game against Valpo or Murray State recently. At best it is a resume helping win, at worst it is much better than a SWAC game.

crap dangit all to hell how do I mix up Manhattan and Monmouth

I know it's all hypothetical, but the issue with Monmouth was losing 3 league games on the road at sub-200 teams. By having to play each team twice, you absorb every single bad opponent in the league twice. By having an 18-game schedule, you can manipulate it to help the top teams avoid the calorie bombs in conference. This is what the AAC will likely do with Wichita, making them play all the top teams twice and USF/UCF/Tulane once.
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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby TheAsianSensation » April 7th, 2017, 2:01 pm

What I like about Valpo is that they were Horizon favorites coming into the year...and scheduled like it. They knew they'd be good so they tried to give themselves a legit chance at an at-large. That's the type of attitude I want to see out of an invited team.
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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby BirdsEyeView » April 7th, 2017, 2:01 pm

AndShock wrote:
BirdsEyeView wrote:
uniftw wrote:
There is no "next Wichita". It's why adding to get to 11 or 12 with strong teams being the addition, is the best option if we are going to add teams.


Correct, not from the get-go. I would much prefer pick up a school with the potential to be the next Wichita. That is, a commitment to athletics and a willingness to put money towards athletics.

I really don't think that's Valpo

The only next Wichita in college basketball is Grand Canyon and the Valley isn't going to want to spend the money to travel there. Set your sights lower.


I mentioned them in another thread on here earlier today. Would love Grand Canyon
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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby mvfcfan » April 7th, 2017, 2:05 pm

Evansville is not going to the Horizon. Murray State and Valpo should both be coming in and everyone should be happy about that. They are both traditionally good basketball programs that are both pretty close to all the other schools in our conference. Literally the farthest I'd have to go to go watch a road game from Terre Haute is either Springfield or Cedar Falls. I'm thrilled about this. I think it would be cool if we could get Belmont to join as well. I'm optimistic that our conference will be better next year than it was this year. :dance: Bye Wichita! You won't be missed.
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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby TheAsianSensation » April 7th, 2017, 2:05 pm

Just to clarify what I think 11 teams and 20 conference games means:

- The top teams, in order to get an at-large bid, need to schedule up in the non-con. Wichita will tell you that. Well, by going to 20 conference games, you cut the legs out of good teams who want to strive for an at-large bid.
- The bottom teams mostly struggle to fill the non-con with games, often having to settle for non D1s, or fattening cupcakes. So going to 20 conference games helps them.

This is why I'm so violently against 20 conference games (11 teams without 20 conference games is a different argument). That type of idea punishes the good teams and rewards the bad teams by allowing them to accept being bad. It is the exact opposite of the type of philosophy our league should have going forward.

I cannot denounce a 20 game league schedule strongly enough. It would be a worse decision than adding any school you could name.
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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby uniftw » April 7th, 2017, 2:08 pm

TheAsianSensation wrote:Just to clarify what I think 11 teams and 20 conference games means:

- The top teams, in order to get an at-large bid, need to schedule up in the non-con. Wichita will tell you that. Well, by going to 20 conference games, you cut the legs out of good teams who want to strive for an at-large bid.
- The bottom teams mostly struggle to fill the non-con with games, often having to settle for non D1s, or fattening cupcakes. So going to 20 conference games helps them.

This is why I'm so violently against 20 conference games (11 teams without 20 conference games is a different argument). That type of idea punishes the good teams and rewards the bad teams by allowing them to accept being bad. It is the exact opposite of the type of philosophy our league should have going forward.

I cannot denounce a 20 game league schedule strongly enough. It would be a worse decision than adding any school you could name.
Scheduling up is not/has not been an issue in Cedar Falls.
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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby mvfcfan » April 7th, 2017, 2:10 pm

We need to schedule tough at the beginning of the year in the non conference that way we can boost our RPI's and our SOS's. I know RPI doesn't matter as much as it once did, but if the majority of our teams can have good RPI's entering conference play that would be a good thing.

I say if we can get both Murray and Valpo, then we need to try to get Belmont (again) as well. The worst thing they could say is no, but with Murray State in I think they would be more interested.
Last edited by mvfcfan on April 7th, 2017, 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby TheAsianSensation » April 7th, 2017, 2:11 pm

uniftw wrote:
TheAsianSensation wrote:Just to clarify what I think 11 teams and 20 conference games means:

- The top teams, in order to get an at-large bid, need to schedule up in the non-con. Wichita will tell you that. Well, by going to 20 conference games, you cut the legs out of good teams who want to strive for an at-large bid.
- The bottom teams mostly struggle to fill the non-con with games, often having to settle for non D1s, or fattening cupcakes. So going to 20 conference games helps them.

This is why I'm so violently against 20 conference games (11 teams without 20 conference games is a different argument). That type of idea punishes the good teams and rewards the bad teams by allowing them to accept being bad. It is the exact opposite of the type of philosophy our league should have going forward.

I cannot denounce a 20 game league schedule strongly enough. It would be a worse decision than adding any school you could name.
Scheduling up is not/has not been an issue in Cedar Falls.

I'd imagine UNI would be the leader against a 20 game schedule. Just using this year as an example, UNI might have to give up the George Mason series to make room.
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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby havoc » April 7th, 2017, 2:15 pm

TheAsianSensation wrote:Just to clarify what I think 11 teams and 20 conference games means:

- The top teams, in order to get an at-large bid, need to schedule up in the non-con. Wichita will tell you that. Well, by going to 20 conference games, you cut the legs out of good teams who want to strive for an at-large bid.
- The bottom teams mostly struggle to fill the non-con with games, often having to settle for non D1s, or fattening cupcakes. So going to 20 conference games helps them.

This is why I'm so violently against 20 conference games (11 teams without 20 conference games is a different argument). That type of idea punishes the good teams and rewards the bad teams by allowing them to accept being bad. It is the exact opposite of the type of philosophy our league should have going forward.

I cannot denounce a 20 game league schedule strongly enough. It would be a worse decision than adding any school you could name.


Do the top teams in the MVC, or any other similar conference, not have to schedule up in the non-con right now if they want to get an at-large regardless of how many conference games they play?

Wichita State played South Carolina State (307), Tulsa (139), Maryland-Eastern Shore (279), and Saint Louis (247) in the non-conference this year. How would taking away those games and adding two again Valpo (78) and Murray State (231) punish WSU?
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Re: MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team lea

Postby uniftw » April 7th, 2017, 2:19 pm

TheAsianSensation wrote:
uniftw wrote:
TheAsianSensation wrote:Just to clarify what I think 11 teams and 20 conference games means:

- The top teams, in order to get an at-large bid, need to schedule up in the non-con. Wichita will tell you that. Well, by going to 20 conference games, you cut the legs out of good teams who want to strive for an at-large bid.
- The bottom teams mostly struggle to fill the non-con with games, often having to settle for non D1s, or fattening cupcakes. So going to 20 conference games helps them.

This is why I'm so violently against 20 conference games (11 teams without 20 conference games is a different argument). That type of idea punishes the good teams and rewards the bad teams by allowing them to accept being bad. It is the exact opposite of the type of philosophy our league should have going forward.

I cannot denounce a 20 game league schedule strongly enough. It would be a worse decision than adding any school you could name.
Scheduling up is not/has not been an issue in Cedar Falls.

I'd imagine UNI would be the leader against a 20 game schedule. Just using this year as an example, UNI might have to give up the George Mason series to make room.
4 exempt tourney games, a DIII, Big 4 Classic (IA/Iowa State), MTN West Challenge. That's 7 of 10-11 OOC games.

We have a good relationship with VCU, George Mason, UND, and a a handful of others.

20 games, for UNI, actually helps.
20 is far superior to 16
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