Of realistic/busable candidates:
Murray
Valpo
--cliff drop--
10-12 schools at the same level
Stand pat at 11 and wait for someone to rise to the top for #12. Meritocracy.
Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:I see your point but last time there was more than this.
PantherU wrote:There's a note I want to make that I've heard mentioned about Milwaukee in other places.
It's been brought up how Milwaukee hasn't won a game in the NCAA Tournament in 10 years, and has only one appearance since then. This is true.
One of the people I saw bring this point up mentioned that college basketball at mid-majors is cyclical; that almost no one is great every single year, and the ones that are have moved up to high-major conferences (Butler, Xavier) or exist on their own island (Gonzaga). This is also true.
A little background, because I want you all to know how Milwaukee was built up at pretty much the worst possible time.
Keep in mind that Milwaukee was the best team in the conference at the end of the 2009-10 and 2010-11 seasons not named Butler. They literally ran into the greatest mid-major of all time in the semifinals in 2010 and missed a three-pointer that would have tied it late, then Butler made their free throws and went on to absolutely trash Wright State in the title game on their way to finishing a couple inches from the NCAA Title. In 2011, Milwaukee won at Butler and destroyed them in Milwaukee, then Butler took the conference title game and went to the NCAA Title game again.
I say all this because, as I said, Butler in 2010 and 2011 was the greatest mid-major basketball team of all time. Of. All. Time. So what do you think of Milwaukee if they had NCAA Tournaments in 2003, 2005, 2006, 2010, 2011 and 2014? What if they had a tourney victory in 2011 and had Big Dance W's in 2005 (Sweet 16), 2006 and 2011?
That team's probably a shoo-in for the MVC. So are we really going to dismiss Milwaukee because they ran into the Best Mid-Major of All Time? 'Sorry, you'd be getting into the MVC, but you hit the upside of your cycle right when you were facing Brad Stevens, Gordon Hayward, Matt Howard and Shelvin Mack. Valpo's for sure in because they hit the top of their cycle after 2011, when Butler fell off and then left.'
Don't get me wrong, I think Valpo is the #10 team for the MVC. I just think it's real easy to dismiss Milwaukee without looking at history more closely.
squirrel wrote:Until 1999, Milwaukee was among the worst programs in DI. Period.
squirrel wrote:As for the two seasons you cite, Milwaukee finished 4th in 2010, behind Wright St and Green Bay as well. So they ran into more than just The Greatest Mid-Major of All-Time (which is openly debatable.)
squirrel wrote:They've had losing Horizon records in 3 of the last 5 years.
Look, its OK to try and sell Milwaukee, they're not at the top of my list, but if we're being honest about history, the program has largely been a trainwreck. Now, they haven't been as terrible as they were in their early DI days, but they have had more teams closer to the bottom of DI than they have RPI 100 teams since Bo Ryan and Bruce Pearl have been out of the picture.
Their performance profile beyond that is the very definition of meh.
squirrel wrote:Complaining about APR hamstringing the program doesn't help Milwaukee's case any.
mvfcfan wrote:squirrel wrote:Complaining about APR hamstringing the program doesn't help Milwaukee's case any.
Totally agree with that. We could add Texas Southern or any of the SWAC teams. One of those schools is always on probation down there. We don't want any of that in the MVC.
PantherU wrote:
Add up Evansville, Drake, Bradley, Illinois State, Indiana State, Loyola and Missouri State - the entire MVC outside of UNI and SIU. Since 2000, they have a total of 5 NCAA Tournaments, with 3 victories in the NCAA Tournament. The most recent NCAA Tournament appearance was 20-14 Indiana State's surprise 2011 MVC Championship.
Milwaukee has four NCAA Tournaments since 2000, with three victories. Our most recent NCAA Tournament appearance was 2014, which was a surprise appearance by a 21-14 team.
We are literally one NCAA Tournament appearance short of having the same exact NCAA Tournament resume since 2000 as seven of the nine MVC members combined, with a more recent NCAA Tournament appearance by three years. And this wasn't cherry-picking - I could have said since 2002, then we'd have a better resume because Indiana State's 2000 and 2001 appearances would have fallen off. But I'm magnanimous.
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