Public vs Private - The Competitive Imbalance

[Majik45]

Is Bradley carrying their weight though?

Any Bradley fan will admit we have not been carrying our weight in the last 10 years. We had the sweet 16 appearance in 2006, and a nice NIT appearance in 2007, but it went down hill from there. Then we made a disaster hire after slowly sliding down the cliff after those two years, which dropped us into the abyss we have been in the past 5 years. It appears our current coach has us pointed back in the right direction, but it has been a long painful ride.

Bradley was pretty good in the mid 90's, but only got to the big dance once in 96. They had NIT appearances in 94, 95, 97, 99, and 01. During this time frame, the valley was usually only sending 1 team dancing, so we were much like Illinois State has been the last 10 years, very solid, but couldn't get over the top.

[Red]

Agreed 100%.

Adding the best public out there that the MVC can get (Murray State) and the best private out there the MVC can get (Valpo) seems to make the most sense and takes care of both sides. It seems easy enough which is probably why it wont happen.

This is the best course. Leave the door open for a 12th to emerge, but get the best out there that are near/within our footprint.

I agree. The challenge is that even the best schools really do nothing for us.

[Redhawk]

A yearly top 4 or 5 of UNI, Bradley, SIU, MOSU and Valpo would be great for the Valley and would be a 2-3 bid league.

That would be a strong group to battle for 2nd behind the Birds!

[tribecalledquest]

A yearly top 4 or 5 of UNI, Bradley, SIU, MOSU and Valpo would be great for the Valley and would be a 2-3 bid league.

That would be a strong group to battle for 2nd behind the Birds!

You misspelled Bears

[Red]

I don't think you will find any Bradley fan arguing that the MBB has held its weight since, at best, 2007. So that's 10 years. Not once has anyone denied this. The point has been it isn't from lack of trying or lack of spending or because it's a "private" school.

Hey, I'm with you on Bradley. I really am. Out of all the schools I want to get really good, it's Bradley.

A yearly top 4 or 5 of UNI, Bradley, SIU, MOSU and Valpo would be great for the Valley and would be a 2-3 bid league.

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood, but how do you figure we'd get 2-3 bids if those schools are at the top? We just went 17-1 in the league and got omitted. Hell, WSU might've missed the NCAA if they had lost on Sunday in STL.

[IllinoisState]

First of all, the only NCAA shares that earn money are men's basketball, which is the only real revenue producing sport. He makes it sound like Drake and Bradley are looting ISU Blue's volleyball shares and laughing to the bank. Men's basketball is all that matters from a revenue perspective.

Second, he forgets to mention Loyola joined in the 2013-14 season and had a roster of Horizon players that is slowly being upgraded. Faulting them is faulty. If we're being fair, we should give them a total pass, or at least a pass until this last season.

That leaves Drake, Bradley and Evansville. Bradley is in its worst stretch in program history, after a 2006 Sweet 16, 1996 NCAA at large, and 3 NCAA bids in the 1980s (plus an NIT title). Historically, we've carried our weight.

He says there were 4 public NCAA bids this decade. He's right, but 3 of the 4 are by UNI. The remaining one was a flukeish Indiana State run in 2011.

Evansville hasn't earned an NCAA share since 1999. Of course last year they were a bucket away from winning Arch Madness. It easily could've been them instead of UNI. Missouri State and Illinois State haven't earned NCAA shares since the 1990s either.

So all the other schools have been leeching off UNI this decade. For the sake of the conference let's hope that changes.

Is Bradley carrying their weight though?

Since I was born (I'm just shy of 30), Bradley has just 3 NCAA tournament bids. 3 bids in 30 seasons. 1 every 10, and they really aren't close to another one. Sure, the 3 season span between 85/95-87/88 had 2 bids, but that is going back over 30 years.

In many ways Bradley is just like Drake and Evansville. A lot to brag about int he 50s and 60s, but pretty much nothing since, especially in terms the last decade or two, which is what really matters

I think Bradley is the one private that can actually become a "giant", but for the most part they haven't really don't much in 30 years

You're right about Bradley if you ignore 2005-2009 and a few other years thrown in.

[BEARZ77]

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood, but how do you figure we'd get 2-3 bids if those schools are at the top? We just went 17-1 in the league and got omitted. Hell, WSU might've missed the NCAA if they had lost on Sunday in STL.

17-1 in the league had nothing to do with it; no top 50 wins outside WSU did. Same for WSU, they didn't beat anybody. The point is if we have 3-5 teams in the top 75 , to do that they would have had to schedule well and been successful in the non con. That's the whole ball game; but having said that I don't know that consistently any MVC team will be able to schedule well enough to make that happen. Which is why I say a reasonable goal is more like 3-4 teams annually in the NCAA/NIT combo. That may be as good as any midmajor conference can expect with an occasional year of getting 2-3 in the NCAA Tourney.

[Mikovio]

I don't think you will find any Bradley fan arguing that the MBB has held its weight since, at best, 2007. So that's 10 years. Not once has anyone denied this. The point has been it isn't from lack of trying or lack of spending or because it's a "private" school.

Hey, I'm with you on Bradley. I really am. Out of all the schools I want to get really good, it's Bradley.

A yearly top 4 or 5 of UNI, Bradley, SIU, MOSU and Valpo would be great for the Valley and would be a 2-3 bid league.

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood, but how do you figure we'd get 2-3 bids if those schools are at the top? We just went 17-1 in the league and got omitted. Hell, WSU might've missed the NCAA if they had lost on Sunday in STL.

The idea is that the MVC doesn't have only 2 teams inside the top 140 again. That-- and a middling noncon-- is why ISU Red was snubbed (though I still think they should have been on the other side of the bubble). Too many MVC schools have been underperforming vis a vis their historical norms.

Since 1980, Bradley has made the NCAA or NIT the following years:

1980 NCAA
1982 NIT Champions
1985 NIT
1986 NCAA Second Round
1988 NCAA
1994 NIT
1995 NIT
1996 NCAA
1997 NIT
1999 NIT
2001 NIT
2006 NCAA Sweet 16
2007 NIT

Now obviously it's been a long slide since 2007 (with a few useless CBIs and CITs), but historically yeah I think Bradley has pulled their own weight, even if you toss out the 50s and 60s.

Olympic sports are always going to be dominated by the publics because privates don't offer full scholarships in women's water polo and a $5k scholarship at a public goes a lot further than a $5k scholarship at a private. If the publics want to form a powerhouse women's water polo conference, then yes, they should go off on their own.

[uniftw]

You're right about Bradley if you ignore 2005-2009 and a few other years thrown in.

2004-2005 - 13-15

2005-2006 - 22-11 (Yep, the S16 team had just 20 wins going into the NCAA tournament. I believe they were the 6 seed in the conference tournament that year. On Feb 8th they were 13-9, they just happened to get red hot late, winning the last 5 conference games (3 of them at home) and lost in the conference tournament title game ending a 7 game in streak.

2006-2007 - 22-13

2007-2008 - 21-17 - were 17-15 after a first round conference tournament loss. 5th place in the MVC. Picked up 4 more wins in the CBI...YAY CBI!!!!!

2008-2009 - 18-14 after the conference tournament. Picked up 3 more wins in the CIT...YAY CIT!!!!

Again, I want Bradley to be good. They can lay claim to being, at least average, a whole lot more than a couple other schools (including publics).

[IllinoisState]

You're right about Bradley if you ignore 2005-2009 and a few other years thrown in.

2004-2005 - 13-15

2005-2006 - 22-11 (Yep, the S16 team had just 20 wins going into the NCAA tournament. I believe they were the 6 seed in the conference tournament that year. On Feb 8th they were 13-9, they just happened to get red hot late, winning the last 5 conference games (3 of them at home) and lost in the conference tournament title game ending a 7 game in streak.

2006-2007 - 22-13

2007-2008 - 21-17 - were 17-15 after a first round conference tournament loss. 5th place in the MVC. Picked up 4 more wins in the CBI...YAY CBI!!!!!

2008-2009 - 18-14 after the conference tournament. Picked up 3 more wins in the CIT...YAY CIT!!!!

Again, I want Bradley to be good. They can lay claim to being, at least average, a whole lot more than a couple other schools (including publics).

Your history book is a bit off.

2008-09 21-15
2007-08 21-17
2006-07 22-13
2005-06 22-11