Public vs Private - The Competitive Imbalance

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Re: Public vs Private - The Competitive Imbalance

Postby tribecalledquest » May 4th, 2017, 12:36 pm

uniftw wrote:It's not as bad as people think.

How do you start splitting sports not every school plays? What about sports in other conferences? How do you quanitify the multiple wrestling All Americans UNI lands? How do you quantify the wrestling teams finish in the NCAA championships? Same for swimming, tennis, etc...


He did also use the all sports standings, which show the privates at the bottom of the league as well.


The public schools have always been better in the all-sports trophy. That's not new news and they have advantages in sports that don't offer full scholarships to the full roster. That's not whining--just the truth.
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Re: Public vs Private - The Competitive Imbalance

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Re: Public vs Private - The Competitive Imbalance

Postby uniftw » May 4th, 2017, 12:53 pm

Mikovio wrote:First of all, the only NCAA shares that earn money are men's basketball, which is the only real revenue producing sport. He makes it sound like Drake and Bradley are looting ISU Blue's volleyball shares and laughing to the bank. Men's basketball is all that matters from a revenue perspective.

Second, he forgets to mention Loyola joined in the 2013-14 season and had a roster of Horizon players that is slowly being upgraded. Faulting them is faulty. If we're being fair, we should give them a total pass, or at least a pass until this last season.

That leaves Drake, Bradley and Evansville. Bradley is in its worst stretch in program history, after a 2006 Sweet 16, 1996 NCAA at large, and 3 NCAA bids in the 1980s (plus an NIT title). Historically, we've carried our weight.

He says there were 4 public NCAA bids this decade. He's right, but 3 of the 4 are by UNI. The remaining one was a flukeish Indiana State run in 2011.

Evansville hasn't earned an NCAA share since 1999. Of course last year they were a bucket away from winning Arch Madness. It easily could've been them instead of UNI. Missouri State and Illinois State haven't earned NCAA shares since the 1990s either.

So all the other schools have been leeching off UNI this decade. For the sake of the conference let's hope that changes.

Is Bradley carrying their weight though?

Since I was born (I'm just shy of 30), Bradley has just 3 NCAA tournament bids. 3 bids in 30 seasons. 1 every 10, and they really aren't close to another one. Sure, the 3 season span between 85/95-87/88 had 2 bids, but that is going back over 30 years.

In many ways Bradley is just like Drake and Evansville. A lot to brag about int he 50s and 60s, but pretty much nothing since, especially in terms the last decade or two, which is what really matters

I think Bradley is the one private that can actually become a "giant", but for the most part they haven't really don't much in 30 years
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Re: Public vs Private - The Competitive Imbalance

Postby tribecalledquest » May 4th, 2017, 1:12 pm

uniftw wrote:
Mikovio wrote:First of all, the only NCAA shares that earn money are men's basketball, which is the only real revenue producing sport. He makes it sound like Drake and Bradley are looting ISU Blue's volleyball shares and laughing to the bank. Men's basketball is all that matters from a revenue perspective.

Second, he forgets to mention Loyola joined in the 2013-14 season and had a roster of Horizon players that is slowly being upgraded. Faulting them is faulty. If we're being fair, we should give them a total pass, or at least a pass until this last season.

That leaves Drake, Bradley and Evansville. Bradley is in its worst stretch in program history, after a 2006 Sweet 16, 1996 NCAA at large, and 3 NCAA bids in the 1980s (plus an NIT title). Historically, we've carried our weight.

He says there were 4 public NCAA bids this decade. He's right, but 3 of the 4 are by UNI. The remaining one was a flukeish Indiana State run in 2011.

Evansville hasn't earned an NCAA share since 1999. Of course last year they were a bucket away from winning Arch Madness. It easily could've been them instead of UNI. Missouri State and Illinois State haven't earned NCAA shares since the 1990s either.

So all the other schools have been leeching off UNI this decade. For the sake of the conference let's hope that changes.

Is Bradley carrying their weight though?

Since I was born (I'm just shy of 30), Bradley has just 3 NCAA tournament bids. 3 bids in 30 seasons. 1 every 10, and they really aren't close to another one. Sure, the 3 season span between 85/95-87/88 had 2 bids, but that is going back over 30 years.

In many ways Bradley is just like Drake and Evansville. A lot to brag about int he 50s and 60s, but pretty much nothing since, especially in terms the last decade or two, which is what really matters

I think Bradley is the one private that can actually become a "giant", but for the most part they haven't really don't much in 30 years


I don't think you will find any Bradley fan arguing that the MBB has held its weight since, at best, 2007. So that's 10 years. Not once has anyone denied this. The point has been it isn't from lack of trying or lack of spending or because it's a "private" school.
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Re: Public vs Private - The Competitive Imbalance

Postby uniftw » May 4th, 2017, 1:18 pm

tribecalledquest wrote:
I don't think you will find any Bradley fan arguing that the MBB has held its weight since, at best, 2007. So that's 10 years. Not once has anyone denied this. The point has been it isn't from lack of trying or lack of spending or because it's a "private" school.

Hey, I'm with you on Bradley. I really am. Out of all the schools I want to get really good, it's Bradley.

A yearly top 4 or 5 of UNI, Bradley, SIU, MOSU and Valpo would be great for the Valley and would be a 2-3 bid league.
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Re: Public vs Private - The Competitive Imbalance

Postby Majik45 » May 4th, 2017, 1:18 pm

uniftw wrote:Is Bradley carrying their weight though?


Any Bradley fan will admit we have not been carrying our weight in the last 10 years. We had the sweet 16 appearance in 2006, and a nice NIT appearance in 2007, but it went down hill from there. Then we made a disaster hire after slowly sliding down the cliff after those two years, which dropped us into the abyss we have been in the past 5 years. It appears our current coach has us pointed back in the right direction, but it has been a long painful ride.

Bradley was pretty good in the mid 90's, but only got to the big dance once in 96. They had NIT appearances in 94, 95, 97, 99, and 01. During this time frame, the valley was usually only sending 1 team dancing, so we were much like Illinois State has been the last 10 years, very solid, but couldn't get over the top.
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Re: Public vs Private - The Competitive Imbalance

Postby Red » May 4th, 2017, 1:23 pm

Khan4Cats wrote:
tribecalledquest wrote:
Agreed 100%.

Adding the best public out there that the MVC can get (Murray State) and the best private out there the MVC can get (Valpo) seems to make the most sense and takes care of both sides. It seems easy enough which is probably why it wont happen.

:+1:

This is the best course. Leave the door open for a 12th to emerge, but get the best out there that are near/within our footprint.

I agree. The challenge is that even the best schools really do nothing for us.
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Re: Public vs Private - The Competitive Imbalance

Postby Redhawk » May 4th, 2017, 1:26 pm

uniftw wrote:A yearly top 4 or 5 of UNI, Bradley, SIU, MOSU and Valpo would be great for the Valley and would be a 2-3 bid league.


That would be a strong group to battle for 2nd behind the Birds! :Cheers:
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Re: Public vs Private - The Competitive Imbalance

Postby tribecalledquest » May 4th, 2017, 1:29 pm

Redhawk wrote:
uniftw wrote:A yearly top 4 or 5 of UNI, Bradley, SIU, MOSU and Valpo would be great for the Valley and would be a 2-3 bid league.


That would be a strong group to battle for 2nd behind the Birds! :Cheers:


You misspelled Bears :)
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Re: Public vs Private - The Competitive Imbalance

Postby Red » May 4th, 2017, 1:55 pm

uniftw wrote:
tribecalledquest wrote:
I don't think you will find any Bradley fan arguing that the MBB has held its weight since, at best, 2007. So that's 10 years. Not once has anyone denied this. The point has been it isn't from lack of trying or lack of spending or because it's a "private" school.

Hey, I'm with you on Bradley. I really am. Out of all the schools I want to get really good, it's Bradley.

A yearly top 4 or 5 of UNI, Bradley, SIU, MOSU and Valpo would be great for the Valley and would be a 2-3 bid league.

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood, but how do you figure we'd get 2-3 bids if those schools are at the top? We just went 17-1 in the league and got omitted. Hell, WSU might've missed the NCAA if they had lost on Sunday in STL.
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Re: Public vs Private - The Competitive Imbalance

Postby IllinoisState » May 4th, 2017, 2:08 pm

uniftw wrote:
Mikovio wrote:First of all, the only NCAA shares that earn money are men's basketball, which is the only real revenue producing sport. He makes it sound like Drake and Bradley are looting ISU Blue's volleyball shares and laughing to the bank. Men's basketball is all that matters from a revenue perspective.

Second, he forgets to mention Loyola joined in the 2013-14 season and had a roster of Horizon players that is slowly being upgraded. Faulting them is faulty. If we're being fair, we should give them a total pass, or at least a pass until this last season.

That leaves Drake, Bradley and Evansville. Bradley is in its worst stretch in program history, after a 2006 Sweet 16, 1996 NCAA at large, and 3 NCAA bids in the 1980s (plus an NIT title). Historically, we've carried our weight.

He says there were 4 public NCAA bids this decade. He's right, but 3 of the 4 are by UNI. The remaining one was a flukeish Indiana State run in 2011.

Evansville hasn't earned an NCAA share since 1999. Of course last year they were a bucket away from winning Arch Madness. It easily could've been them instead of UNI. Missouri State and Illinois State haven't earned NCAA shares since the 1990s either.

So all the other schools have been leeching off UNI this decade. For the sake of the conference let's hope that changes.

Is Bradley carrying their weight though?

Since I was born (I'm just shy of 30), Bradley has just 3 NCAA tournament bids. 3 bids in 30 seasons. 1 every 10, and they really aren't close to another one. Sure, the 3 season span between 85/95-87/88 had 2 bids, but that is going back over 30 years.

In many ways Bradley is just like Drake and Evansville. A lot to brag about int he 50s and 60s, but pretty much nothing since, especially in terms the last decade or two, which is what really matters

I think Bradley is the one private that can actually become a "giant", but for the most part they haven't really don't much in 30 years


You're right about Bradley if you ignore 2005-2009 and a few other years thrown in.
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