Order of finish with Murray & Valpo included

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Re: Order of finish with Murray & Valpo included

Postby BU fan » May 17th, 2017, 9:06 pm

Redhawk wrote:Maybe you didn't realize that we have 7 new players coming in.
You will know these names soon enough:
Milk Yarbrough - Transfer Former A10 Freshman of the Year (Mikyle lite)
Christian Romine - Transfer UTEP 6-9 athletic post
Zach Copeland - Cali JuCo Player of the Year (Sharpshooter)
William Tinsley -another JuCo sharpshooter
Taylor Bruninga- 6-9 35ppg sharpshooter
Trace Young - 6-8 Fayne clone
And last but not least
Elijah Clarance Program changing PG. Probably best Müller recruit ever.
Think Wes W. but a better shooter

It's not about who we had.... it's who we will have this fall!


I haven't been on this forum for a long time, so sorry if this has already been corrected, but.....
Milik Yarbrough was not the Freshman of the Year in the A-10 for St. Louis (2015). Eric Paschall of Fordham was.
Yarbrough was voted on to the All-Rookie team: http://www.atlantic10.com/pdf9/3272408.pdf
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Re: Order of finish with Murray & Valpo included

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Re: Order of finish with Murray & Valpo included

Postby MissouriValleyUnite » May 17th, 2017, 9:58 pm

uniguy wrote:So I used to have a screen name back in the ValleyTalk Days, and I think I had one on here long ago (although I can't remember what it was). Eventually I just sort of faded away from this board as the Wichita folks got overwhelming. I would still read from time-to-time in season and when big events happened, but just stopped posting.

Anyway I feel compelled to come back. Losing Wichita may not be good for the league, but it is definitely good for this board.

One of the positives of Wichita leaving is that the league is competitive again. You can make an argument that five or six teams could win. It isn't "who can stay with Wichita" or "can anybody catch Wichita", etc. I am hopeful that some programs that have been in the doldrums will maybe even see a revival with a little room to breathe now that Wichita is gone. It definitely sucks that multiple bids will be harder, but there is a silver lining here.

Anyway, here are my way-too-early picks for the MVC next year. The best part about it is how hard it was. Honestly wouldn't be shocked if anyone 1-6 won it this year. That is very exciting.


10.) Drake- Could see the new coach plus Reed Timmer get them out of the cellar, but will likely be a Thursday team again.

9.) Evansville- Unless it is one of their new recruits, I don't see who on their roster can shoulder the load offensively in their typical system this year.

8.) Indiana State- Kind of an enigma. They had one of the better noncons in the league last year and fell apart in league play. Scott can ball. Wouldn't be surprised if they finish in the middle, but if I had to guess I would put them on Thursday.

7.) Southern Illinois- They have a good chunk of the cast returning, but lost a couple key pieces. They were decent last year, and could certainly finish higher than this, but I think a mid-pack finish like last year is their best cased scenario.

6.) Valpo- The Crusaders are extremely hard to peg. They had the second best season of any current MVC member last year, and would have been very competitive last year. But they lost their stud and their second leading scorer to boot. But they have some P5 transfers coming eligible and some good supporting pieces back. If those transfers become impact guys (which doesn't always happen....ask Drake) then Valpo could be in the top third of the league. Otherwise I envision somewhere in the middle.

5.) Missouri State- I know many of the prognosticators are high on these guys, but I have a tough time having faith in a Paul Lusk team until they show me something. Yes, Alize Johnson is a BEAST, but this is a team that went 7-11 last year and had to use the RPI tiebreaker to (barely) get avoid Thursday over Bradley. I don't understand why everyone thinks they are the favorites. Do they have a big influx of talent (honestly asking....I don't follow recruiting closely)? Otherwise, I have a hard time seeing them on top. I hope they prove me wrong....a strong MSU would be a coup for the MVC.

4.) Bradley- In year one Wardle's freshmen showed strides as the season went on. Year two, the freshmen and sophomores made big strides and almost avoided Thursday. I think this is the year they "break out" into the Valley's upper division. They'll play in the CIT and maybe win it too. They'll be a real contender next year.

3.) UNI- I have seen a lot of skepticism of my Panthers on this board and, honestly, I completely get it. We were bad last year and we lost easily our best player. On paper, we should not be very good. But I also understand why UNI fans are more optimistic. Last year we relied on a lot of young guys to play big minutes. Coach Jake tends to get major improvments out of young guys. I think UNI fans are banking on improvements from players like McCloud, Haldeman, Brown, and McDonnell which will complement veterans like Koch, Carlson and Lohaus. Throw in a few new guys and that is where the optimism lies. If we don't get improvements from the young guys.....yeah we'll suck.

2.) Loyola- Like MSU, I have a hard time putting Loyola this high, but it is hard to deny where they are. They had one of the better seasons of the MVC's "other" teams last year (although that isn't saying much). Losing Doyle hurts, but they have 3 double digit scorers returning and an outstanding recruiting class. Loyola hasn't been this hyped as an MVC school, and based on the last 30 years I doubt it happened much as a Horizon League member. If Moser and his guys can make that transition to favorite....Loyola could be good enough to win the thing.

1.) Illinois State- The Redbirds are here because they earned it. They went 18-0 against current MVC teams last year. And the next closest (SIU) went 10-8. So that is a huge gap to make up. ISU Red was decimated by graduations and defections, and although they have a big influx of talent and couple talented players left....this will be a very different ISU team. They are here because they dominated what is left of the league last year and they earned it. But they certainly are not heavy favorites.


Those are my thoughts. Go MVC!

Good read. :Cheers:
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Re: Order of finish with Murray & Valpo included

Postby UEACES80 » May 18th, 2017, 6:48 am

uniguy wrote:So I used to have a screen name back in the ValleyTalk Days, and I think I had one on here long ago (although I can't remember what it was). Eventually I just sort of faded away from this board as the Wichita folks got overwhelming. I would still read from time-to-time in season and when big events happened, but just stopped posting.

Anyway I feel compelled to come back. Losing Wichita may not be good for the league, but it is definitely good for this board.

One of the positives of Wichita leaving is that the league is competitive again. You can make an argument that five or six teams could win. It isn't "who can stay with Wichita" or "can anybody catch Wichita", etc. I am hopeful that some programs that have been in the doldrums will maybe even see a revival with a little room to breathe now that Wichita is gone. It definitely sucks that multiple bids will be harder, but there is a silver lining here.

Anyway, here are my way-too-early picks for the MVC next year. The best part about it is how hard it was. Honestly wouldn't be shocked if anyone 1-6 won it this year. That is very exciting.


10.) Drake- Could see the new coach plus Reed Timmer get them out of the cellar, but will likely be a Thursday team again.

9.) Evansville- Unless it is one of their new recruits, I don't see who on their roster can shoulder the load offensively in their typical system this year.

8.) Indiana State- Kind of an enigma. They had one of the better noncons in the league last year and fell apart in league play. Scott can ball. Wouldn't be surprised if they finish in the middle, but if I had to guess I would put them on Thursday.

7.) Southern Illinois- They have a good chunk of the cast returning, but lost a couple key pieces. They were decent last year, and could certainly finish higher than this, but I think a mid-pack finish like last year is their best cased scenario.

6.) Valpo- The Crusaders are extremely hard to peg. They had the second best season of any current MVC member last year, and would have been very competitive last year. But they lost their stud and their second leading scorer to boot. But they have some P5 transfers coming eligible and some good supporting pieces back. If those transfers become impact guys (which doesn't always happen....ask Drake) then Valpo could be in the top third of the league. Otherwise I envision somewhere in the middle.

5.) Missouri State- I know many of the prognosticators are high on these guys, but I have a tough time having faith in a Paul Lusk team until they show me something. Yes, Alize Johnson is a BEAST, but this is a team that went 7-11 last year and had to use the RPI tiebreaker to (barely) get avoid Thursday over Bradley. I don't understand why everyone thinks they are the favorites. Do they have a big influx of talent (honestly asking....I don't follow recruiting closely)? Otherwise, I have a hard time seeing them on top. I hope they prove me wrong....a strong MSU would be a coup for the MVC.

4.) Bradley- In year one Wardle's freshmen showed strides as the season went on. Year two, the freshmen and sophomores made big strides and almost avoided Thursday. I think this is the year they "break out" into the Valley's upper division. They'll play in the CIT and maybe win it too. They'll be a real contender next year.

3.) UNI- I have seen a lot of skepticism of my Panthers on this board and, honestly, I completely get it. We were bad last year and we lost easily our best player. On paper, we should not be very good. But I also understand why UNI fans are more optimistic. Last year we relied on a lot of young guys to play big minutes. Coach Jake tends to get major improvments out of young guys. I think UNI fans are banking on improvements from players like McCloud, Haldeman, Brown, and McDonnell which will complement veterans like Koch, Carlson and Lohaus. Throw in a few new guys and that is where the optimism lies. If we don't get improvements from the young guys.....yeah we'll suck.

2.) Loyola- Like MSU, I have a hard time putting Loyola this high, but it is hard to deny where they are. They had one of the better seasons of the MVC's "other" teams last year (although that isn't saying much). Losing Doyle hurts, but they have 3 double digit scorers returning and an outstanding recruiting class. Loyola hasn't been this hyped as an MVC school, and based on the last 30 years I doubt it happened much as a Horizon League member. If Moser and his guys can make that transition to favorite....Loyola could be good enough to win the thing.

1.) Illinois State- The Redbirds are here because they earned it. They went 18-0 against current MVC teams last year. And the next closest (SIU) went 10-8. So that is a huge gap to make up. ISU Red was decimated by graduations and defections, and although they have a big influx of talent and couple talented players left....this will be a very different ISU team. They are here because they dominated what is left of the league last year and they earned it. But they certainly are not heavy favorites.


Those are my thoughts. Go MVC!


Great post :+1:
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Re: Order of finish with Murray & Valpo included

Postby BEARZ77 » May 18th, 2017, 7:49 am

uniguy wrote:5.) Missouri State- I know many of the prognosticators are high on these guys, but I have a tough time having faith in a Paul Lusk team until they show me something. Yes, Alize Johnson is a BEAST, but this is a team that went 7-11 last year and had to use the RPI tiebreaker to (barely) get avoid Thursday over Bradley. I don't understand why everyone thinks they are the favorites. Do they have a big influx of talent (honestly asking....I don't follow recruiting closely)? Otherwise, I have a hard time seeing them on top. I hope they prove me wrong....a strong MSU would be a coup for the MVC.


I think your skepticism about MSU is reasonable given Lusk's history of underachieving; he is the big question mark for most MSU fans when looking at this team. I'm not a Lusk fan, so I have my own concerns about what this team will do. But if I was making a case for MSU and took the stance that Lusk will be a neutral factor, then this is what I'd base my case on their winning on. First they were a young team last year with the majority of their top players having either none or 1 year of D-1 experience. Second they were 11-4, 2-0 MVC with a road win at UNI when they lost pg Ronnie Rousseau for the season. Some will tell you he was the most talented player we had [ was averaging 11.6 pts, 48% fg, 39% 3pt, 80% ft] . Despite that when you look at how we played against this years projected other top teams, we split with LOC, beat UNI 2 of 3, and lost both to ISUr, one in OT on the road and the other by 1 pt , all but the first game against UNI w/o Rousseau. So clearly we were very competitive and on paper have as much or more back than any of those teams. That includes Johnson, jrs Dixon[8.6 pts] Church,[ 64% fg , league leader in block shots] and wings 6'4 Kreklow and 6"6 Rhodes who both averaged about 7 pts and shot 42% and 39% respectively from the trey line.

Recruiting on the surface appears ok with the additions of 2 freshman , 6'0 pg Lawrence [ who was offered by Clemson before going to a year of prep school] and 6'11 Scott, and 2 jucos , 6'7 Fofana [ a Church clone with limited offense but eye popping athleticism] and 6'8 Scurry [ a double/double guy in juco ] . But here's where I think we really add some talent. You have to add 6'5 rs frosh Greg "Boogie" Williams who was a top 150 recruit , and both Rousseau [ who will return] and graduate transfer 6'4 JT Miller from Howard who averaged right at 15 ppg last year including a couple 30 pt games [ one against Georgetown]. While many teams are adding some solid recruits who no doubt will help, Rousseau and Miller represent 2 proven D-1 double digit scorers added to the mix for the Bears.

So that's the case for the Bears, a pretty loaded roster with a highly questionable Head Coach. I think a case can be made either way and have some justification for anywhere from 1st to 6th.
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Re: Order of finish with Murray & Valpo included

Postby Blers » May 18th, 2017, 8:47 am

Can someone explain to me what makes Elijah Clarence such a special recruit for ISUr? I'm not dumping on him, i just can't find much on him other than he was the 19th best player in Maryland per ESPN, 11th per 247 (obviously those are never completely accurate). He also didn't have any crazy offers from what I could find (Rice, Townson, Hofstra).

I've seen it floated here that he's "program changing" and for a freshmen guard it kind of reminds me about what said of McCloud coming in as a freshmen (flashed later in the season, but was still very much a freshmen).

Any ISU fan care to fill me in? Ya'll would know better than me from the spot check I did.
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Re: Order of finish with Murray & Valpo included

Postby Redhawk » May 18th, 2017, 9:18 am

Blers wrote:Can someone explain to me what makes Elijah Clarence such a special recruit for ISUr? I'm not dumping on him, i just can't find much on him other than he was the 19th best player in Maryland per ESPN, 11th per 247 (obviously those are never completely accurate). He also didn't have any crazy offers from what I could find (Rice, Townson, Hofstra).

I've seen it floated here that he's "program changing" and for a freshmen guard it kind of reminds me about what said of McCloud coming in as a freshmen (flashed later in the season, but was still very much a freshmen).

Any ISU fan care to fill me in? Ya'll would know better than me from the spot check I did.


The "program changing" comments came directly from the Redbird coaching staff.

Clarance committed early and blew up later. Stuck with HCDM who went to Sweden to meet his parents
during recruiting process. Per Rivals:

He has received interest from Georgetown, Maryland, Miami, Syracuse, Virginia,
Virginia Tech, Davidson. Has visited Georgetown & Maryland.


Played in the highly regarded Baltimore Catholic league and was named First Team All Maryland by this site:

http://www.dmvelite.com/news/2017-dmvel ... yland-team

Look for Copeland, Yarbrough and Fayne to lead the Birds next season. A lot is expected
of Clarance but he will most likely share the PG role with Evans at least to start the season.
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Re: Order of finish with Murray & Valpo included

Postby BirdsEyeView » May 18th, 2017, 10:00 am

uniguy wrote:So I used to have a screen name back in the ValleyTalk Days, and I think I had one on here long ago (although I can't remember what it was). Eventually I just sort of faded away from this board as the Wichita folks got overwhelming. I would still read from time-to-time in season and when big events happened, but just stopped posting.

Anyway I feel compelled to come back. Losing Wichita may not be good for the league, but it is definitely good for this board.

One of the positives of Wichita leaving is that the league is competitive again. You can make an argument that five or six teams could win. It isn't "who can stay with Wichita" or "can anybody catch Wichita", etc. I am hopeful that some programs that have been in the doldrums will maybe even see a revival with a little room to breathe now that Wichita is gone. It definitely sucks that multiple bids will be harder, but there is a silver lining here.

Anyway, here are my way-too-early picks for the MVC next year. The best part about it is how hard it was. Honestly wouldn't be shocked if anyone 1-6 won it this year. That is very exciting.


10.) Drake- Could see the new coach plus Reed Timmer get them out of the cellar, but will likely be a Thursday team again.

9.) Evansville- Unless it is one of their new recruits, I don't see who on their roster can shoulder the load offensively in their typical system this year.

8.) Indiana State- Kind of an enigma. They had one of the better noncons in the league last year and fell apart in league play. Scott can ball. Wouldn't be surprised if they finish in the middle, but if I had to guess I would put them on Thursday.

7.) Southern Illinois- They have a good chunk of the cast returning, but lost a couple key pieces. They were decent last year, and could certainly finish higher than this, but I think a mid-pack finish like last year is their best cased scenario.

6.) Valpo- The Crusaders are extremely hard to peg. They had the second best season of any current MVC member last year, and would have been very competitive last year. But they lost their stud and their second leading scorer to boot. But they have some P5 transfers coming eligible and some good supporting pieces back. If those transfers become impact guys (which doesn't always happen....ask Drake) then Valpo could be in the top third of the league. Otherwise I envision somewhere in the middle.

5.) Missouri State- I know many of the prognosticators are high on these guys, but I have a tough time having faith in a Paul Lusk team until they show me something. Yes, Alize Johnson is a BEAST, but this is a team that went 7-11 last year and had to use the RPI tiebreaker to (barely) get avoid Thursday over Bradley. I don't understand why everyone thinks they are the favorites. Do they have a big influx of talent (honestly asking....I don't follow recruiting closely)? Otherwise, I have a hard time seeing them on top. I hope they prove me wrong....a strong MSU would be a coup for the MVC.

4.) Bradley- In year one Wardle's freshmen showed strides as the season went on. Year two, the freshmen and sophomores made big strides and almost avoided Thursday. I think this is the year they "break out" into the Valley's upper division. They'll play in the CIT and maybe win it too. They'll be a real contender next year.

3.) UNI- I have seen a lot of skepticism of my Panthers on this board and, honestly, I completely get it. We were bad last year and we lost easily our best player. On paper, we should not be very good. But I also understand why UNI fans are more optimistic. Last year we relied on a lot of young guys to play big minutes. Coach Jake tends to get major improvments out of young guys. I think UNI fans are banking on improvements from players like McCloud, Haldeman, Brown, and McDonnell which will complement veterans like Koch, Carlson and Lohaus. Throw in a few new guys and that is where the optimism lies. If we don't get improvements from the young guys.....yeah we'll suck.

2.) Loyola- Like MSU, I have a hard time putting Loyola this high, but it is hard to deny where they are. They had one of the better seasons of the MVC's "other" teams last year (although that isn't saying much). Losing Doyle hurts, but they have 3 double digit scorers returning and an outstanding recruiting class. Loyola hasn't been this hyped as an MVC school, and based on the last 30 years I doubt it happened much as a Horizon League member. If Moser and his guys can make that transition to favorite....Loyola could be good enough to win the thing.

1.) Illinois State- The Redbirds are here because they earned it. They went 18-0 against current MVC teams last year. And the next closest (SIU) went 10-8. So that is a huge gap to make up. ISU Red was decimated by graduations and defections, and although they have a big influx of talent and couple talented players left....this will be a very different ISU team. They are here because they dominated what is left of the league last year and they earned it. But they certainly are not heavy favorites.


Those are my thoughts. Go MVC!


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Re: Order of finish with Murray & Valpo included

Postby Blers » May 18th, 2017, 10:57 am

Redhawk wrote:
Blers wrote:Can someone explain to me what makes Elijah Clarence such a special recruit for ISUr? I'm not dumping on him, i just can't find much on him other than he was the 19th best player in Maryland per ESPN, 11th per 247 (obviously those are never completely accurate). He also didn't have any crazy offers from what I could find (Rice, Townson, Hofstra).

I've seen it floated here that he's "program changing" and for a freshmen guard it kind of reminds me about what said of McCloud coming in as a freshmen (flashed later in the season, but was still very much a freshmen).

Any ISU fan care to fill me in? Ya'll would know better than me from the spot check I did.


The "program changing" comments came directly from the Redbird coaching staff.

Clarance committed early and blew up later. Stuck with HCDM who went to Sweden to meet his parents
during recruiting process. Per Rivals:

He has received interest from Georgetown, Maryland, Miami, Syracuse, Virginia,
Virginia Tech, Davidson. Has visited Georgetown & Maryland.


Played in the highly regarded Baltimore Catholic league and was named First Team All Maryland by this site:

http://www.dmvelite.com/news/2017-dmvel ... yland-team

Look for Copeland, Yarbrough and Fayne to lead the Birds next season. A lot is expected
of Clarance but he will most likely share the PG role with Evans at least to start the season.


Got it! Thanks!
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Re: Order of finish with Murray & Valpo included

Postby Make MVC Great Again » May 18th, 2017, 2:06 pm

Anyone who says Wichita leaving the league is a good thing probably wants to turn this league into the Summit.

What are we teaching our kids? To run away from competition? That is a disgrace.
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Re: Order of finish with Murray & Valpo included

Postby Make MVC Great Again » May 18th, 2017, 2:08 pm

Blers wrote:Can someone explain to me what makes Elijah Clarence such a special recruit for ISUr? I'm not dumping on him, i just can't find much on him other than he was the 19th best player in Maryland per ESPN, 11th per 247 (obviously those are never completely accurate). He also didn't have any crazy offers from what I could find (Rice, Townson, Hofstra).

I've seen it floated here that he's "program changing" and for a freshmen guard it kind of reminds me about what said of McCloud coming in as a freshmen (flashed later in the season, but was still very much a freshmen).

Any ISU fan care to fill me in? Ya'll would know better than me from the spot check I did.


You Loyola people are so quick to tout your own guys like they are the best players in the history of the league but then question the legitimacy of every other player in this league.

The definition of delusional.
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