Order of finish with Murray & Valpo included

[BEARZ77]

You are the only fans in the history of this league happy with a sub 500 conference finish. Some schools the coach would get canned after six years and no above 500 conference finish.

Yet, again we are talking about Loyola standards here.

Looks like we will have no problem replacing the Ass Bag WSU posters.

Yeah but it's pretty amazing that just one poster can challenge on his own.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

I don't think that's a current MVC school fan. He had one unique post about Valley marketing that was almost word for word what Shoxcity on ShockerNet wrote.

[Red]

I don't think that's a current MVC school fan. He had one unique post about Valley marketing that was almost word for word what Shoxcity on ShockerNet wrote.

Baller?

[UNIFanSince1983]

There are still quite a few Shox fans trying to put their 2 cents in here.

Maybe they will all eventually find their AAC board...

[uniftw]

Illinois State lost another one to transfer.

Do we really think a team that's going to need to rely on 7 or 8 newcomers playing their first D1 minutes is going to win the league?

[BirdsEyeView]

Illinois State lost another one to transfer.

Do we really think a team that's going to need to rely on 7 or 8 newcomers playing their first D1 minutes is going to win the league?

This latest loss was a non-factor (Andre Washington never ever played), so it's an addition by subtraction. However, your philosophy holds truth, with so many new players it's impossible to tell how good Illinois State will be

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

I'm assuming the league winner will be between 20-22 games. Yes, I believe the birds can win 20 games. Will mo st win more? Possible. Don't know. I think isur will be in the hunt.

[IllinoisState]

Illinois State lost another one to transfer.

Do we really think a team that's going to need to rely on 7 or 8 newcomers playing their first D1 minutes is going to win the league?

A guy who hardly played at all last season? Please.

[BEARZ77]

While that last defection is probably inconsequential, I don't think you can minimize the loss of 5 of your top 7 and just assume a level of play regardless of the talent of incoming players. It took 3 years of the previous group playing together to get to where they were last year; in a league like the Valley where a lot of games are played in the 50's-60's, experience down the stretch in games is a big factor. Also defense was the calling card for ISUr last year, and that can take jucos and freshmen longer to understand and assimilate into their games than their individual offensive skills. That said, I like the progression of Muller's teams and do believe he has built a program that should be competitive year in and out. I think they will be in the mix and probably a definite factor come tourney time; I'm just not sure how quickly all the parts will come together. There are some teams in the league with very experienced rosters who are also adding talented depth that might be able to be playing at a high level earlier in the process. But they all have warts as well, so it should be interesting.

[BirdsEyeView]

While that last defection is probably inconsequential, I don't think you can minimize the loss of 5 of your top 7 and just assume a level of play regardless of the talent of incoming players. It took 3 years of the previous group playing together to get to where they were last year; in a league like the Valley where a lot of games are played in the 50's-60's, experience down the stretch in games is a big factor. Also defense was the calling card for ISUr last year, and that can take jucos and freshmen longer to understand and assimilate into their games than their individual offensive skills. That said, I like the progression of Muller's teams and do believe he has built a program that should be competitive year in and out. I think they will be in the mix and probably a definite factor come tourney time; I'm just not sure how quickly all the parts will come together. There are some teams in the league with very experienced rosters who are also adding talented depth that might be able to be playing at a high level earlier in the process. But they all have warts as well, so it should be interesting.

Agreed 100%