Hopefully this is just phase 1 of expansion

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Re: Hopefully this is just phase 1 of expansion

Postby Cdizzle » June 9th, 2017, 10:07 am

BCPanther wrote:
TheAsianSensation wrote:Television exposure is an interesting topic. I'm not sure of the exact details of our ESPN contract, but I know with other leagues (the AAC, I believe), ESPN threw in some renegotiation clauses that allow them to revisit things if membership changes.

It's impossible to know what the details are of our deal. I imagine all the ESPN3 stuff is safe and will remain as is though. The scary thing is if ESPN is allowed to go back into the deal and tear things up. ESPN just laid off so many people and is reducing budget by any means necessary.....obviously they can't just cancel media deals mid-deal. So the leagues/conferences in the most trouble right now are the first ones that have to go to ESPN to sign their next deal. If Wichita leaving triggered a clause that allows ESPN to force us back to the table, right when money is the tightest it'll ever be, we'll be at a significant disadvantage to every other conference in the entire country. All because Wichita left at the exact time ESPN shut off the water spout of money.

But again, it all depends on the details in the contract Elgin negotiated. Details we don't know.

The one thing I'm pessimistic of is our CBS title game. CBS has no other real stake in our conference, and already sandwiches us in between power conference games. CBS could pretty easily eject. We could easily return to ESPN though and our previously traditional Monday night title game, going Friday-Monday again. We're still good enough to get that spot back.


CBS is contracted to carry our title game until 2020 at this point. We'll have been on CBS for 15 years at that point. I don't see any danger if losing that slot. It's not like Wichita appeared in that game very often...

The last part is true. But I do think it could be in danger. It's not like the game was being played for a 13 seed very often either.

Media contracts are going to be so interesting to watch for all levels of sports and all levels of D1 basketball over the next 5-10 years.
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Re: Hopefully this is just phase 1 of expansion

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Re: Hopefully this is just phase 1 of expansion

Postby shocktheheart » June 9th, 2017, 12:02 pm

BCPanther wrote:
TheAsianSensation wrote:Television exposure is an interesting topic. I'm not sure of the exact details of our ESPN contract, but I know with other leagues (the AAC, I believe), ESPN threw in some renegotiation clauses that allow them to revisit things if membership changes.

It's impossible to know what the details are of our deal. I imagine all the ESPN3 stuff is safe and will remain as is though. The scary thing is if ESPN is allowed to go back into the deal and tear things up. ESPN just laid off so many people and is reducing budget by any means necessary.....obviously they can't just cancel media deals mid-deal. So the leagues/conferences in the most trouble right now are the first ones that have to go to ESPN to sign their next deal. If Wichita leaving triggered a clause that allows ESPN to force us back to the table, right when money is the tightest it'll ever be, we'll be at a significant disadvantage to every other conference in the entire country. All because Wichita left at the exact time ESPN shut off the water spout of money.

But again, it all depends on the details in the contract Elgin negotiated. Details we don't know.

The one thing I'm pessimistic of is our CBS title game. CBS has no other real stake in our conference, and already sandwiches us in between power conference games. CBS could pretty easily eject. We could easily return to ESPN though and our previously traditional Monday night title game, going Friday-Monday again. We're still good enough to get that spot back.


CBS is contracted to carry our title game until 2020 at this point. We'll have been on CBS for 15 years at that point. I don't see any danger if losing that slot. It's not like Wichita appeared in that game very often...


Last 15 years: 8 of the 15 tournament finals had a team that isn't in the MVC and moved onto a bigger conference. I would say that it doesn't bold very well. Four of the last eight finals had WSU as a participant. The most of anyone in the conference.
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Re: Hopefully this is just phase 1 of expansion

Postby Redhawk » June 9th, 2017, 12:27 pm

shocktheheart wrote:Four of the last eight finals had WSU as a participant. The most of anyone in the conference.


The ISU Redbirds have been in the finals 5 of the past 10 years while UNI Panthers 4 of the last 9.

Did you know that prior to their 2010 Championship appearance WSU had not made it to the finals
for 22 straight years?

Arch Madness survived without the Shockers then and it will now!
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Re: Hopefully this is just phase 1 of expansion

Postby musiccitybulldog » June 9th, 2017, 12:55 pm

Next March Shocker fans will be on here wishing they were back.

Will be interesting to see how the tournament plays out. Will Valpo bring a crowd?
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Re: Hopefully this is just phase 1 of expansion

Postby shocktheheart » June 9th, 2017, 1:18 pm

musiccitybulldog wrote:Next March Shocker fans will be on here wishing they were back.

Will be interesting to see how the tournament plays out. Will Valpo bring a crowd?


Why would WSU be wishing they were back? They are going to be a top 10 team. Fifteen of our league games are going to be with a team that had a RPI of 150 or better last year and only three games with a RPI of 150 or worse. Last year we had four games in the MVC with a RPI of 150 or better and fourteen games with a RPI of 150 or worse. Doesn't help an at large resume. Ask Illinois St.
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Re: Hopefully this is just phase 1 of expansion

Postby VUGrad1314 » June 9th, 2017, 1:25 pm

I think that this marks an era of opportunity for all MVC members. Now that the Shockes, a team that outspent every Valley member by at least 2:1 have graduated to a conference with a budgetary structure more befitting of their considerable means, every Valley team now has the chance to fill the vacuum created by their departure. This should result in increased administrative commitment and expenditure on basketball on the part of each school; as well as, dare I say, a stronger (better?!) top to bottom league. Losing the profile and the top 50 games Wichita State once provided will hurt and will not be good for TV contracts in the short run but I fully expect the league to land on its feet when the time comes to renegotiate in 2-3 years, especially if we land a couple of solid expansion schools in the meantime. Remember, KenPom STILL has this conference in the top 10 WITHOUT the Shockers, and the metric where Wichita State's departure deals its heaviest damage--RPI-- is purportedly being de-emphasized by the selection committee starting this year presumably in favor of metrics like KenPom. Wichita State's departure hurts, to be sure, but it is not the death blow people are making it out to be. Good luck to the Shockers in the AAC, but they shouldn't be worried about the Valley. The conference is going to be just fine and should still come away with a nice media deal going forward.
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Re: Hopefully this is just phase 1 of expansion

Postby Born2Shock » June 9th, 2017, 2:13 pm

VUGrad1314 wrote:I think that this marks an era of opportunity for all MVC members. Now that the Shockes, a team that outspent every Valley member by at least 2:1 have graduated to a conference with a budgetary structure more befitting of their considerable means, every Valley team now has the chance to fill the vacuum created by their departure. This should result in increased administrative commitment and expenditure on basketball on the part of each school; as well as, dare I say, a stronger (better?!) top to bottom league. Losing the profile and the top 50 games Wichita State once provided will hurt and will not be good for TV contracts in the short run but I fully expect the league to land on its feet when the time comes to renegotiate in 2-3 years, especially if we land a couple of solid expansion schools in the meantime. Remember, KenPom STILL has this conference in the top 10 WITHOUT the Shockers, and the metric where Wichita State's departure deals its heaviest damage--RPI-- is purportedly being de-emphasized by the selection committee starting this year presumably in favor of metrics like KenPom. Wichita State's departure hurts, to be sure, but it is not the death blow people are making it out to be. Good luck to the Shockers in the AAC, but they shouldn't be worried about the Valley. The conference is going to be just fine and should still come away with a nice media deal going forward.


Why would the administrators spend MORE when they dont have to?
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Re: Hopefully this is just phase 1 of expansion

Postby VUGrad1314 » June 9th, 2017, 2:19 pm

Because doing so now will help grow the profile of their program and university by making them more competitive and they will be more likely to see a return on their investment as opposed to trying to do the impossible and compete with the Koch brothers. Trying to do that is in their minds a misallocation of funds because the return just wouldn't be there.
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Re: Hopefully this is just phase 1 of expansion

Postby Jsnhbe1Birds » June 9th, 2017, 2:21 pm

Business 101. Spend money to make money
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Re: Hopefully this is just phase 1 of expansion

Postby Born2Shock » June 9th, 2017, 2:25 pm

VUGrad1314 wrote:Because doing so now will help grow the profile of their program and university by making them more competitive and they will be more likely to see a return on their investment as opposed to trying to do the impossible and compete with the Koch brothers. Trying to do that is in their minds a misallocation of funds because the return just wouldn't be there.


Most of them will still see the auto-bid as the way to the tourney. Why spend more? You are vastly over-estimating the financial commitment these administrators have. Most are very content with the status quo, and now that a path to the tourney is seen as being easier, they will maintain that very same status quo.
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