Serious Question

[Stickboy46]

I will remember the community support my school that I coach receives the next time I get offered $4 million instead of my $1 million contract.

I'll turn them down and say "although you are giving me $3 million more than what I am currently making, the community support here at my school is just too good. Sorry."

Saying you can just replace him if those emergency big boosters never stepped up is very ignorant. You have to hit a home run with a new hire ONCE AGAIN. Even Power 5 schools who get coaches poached can't replicate the success.

Illinois lost Bill Self to Kansas
Illinois has been in the dumpster ever since Bill Self's recruits left (Deron Williams/Dee Brown)
Illinois has the funding and donor backing, yet can't find a really good coach to fix that.

If GM is gone because the donors did not step up (which they needed to EVEN WITH ALL THAT MONEY COMING IN FROM TICKET SALES AND MERCHANDISE SALES over the years), you would have to hit another home run on your next hire....having money AND community support does not mean you will get that.

Exhibit A: Bradley and Geno Ford

You are going down a tangent that has nothing to do with what I'm trying to say.

Yes if you are only able to offer 1 million, no one in their right mind will turn down 4 million.

There is no reason why other schools can't get to the numbers WSU was providing Marshall before the Alabama offer. 4 Million is stupid high. Like Top 5 high. 2 million (Which WSU was able to provide based primarily on community support) is still Top 10%.

Yes, you are correct, it's not a guarantee that you will get another great hire. It sure helps though. At 2 million though, you aren't playing the gambling game as much. You can look at coaches that have some success at higher levels. At 500-750k those options are limited.

The point is, WSU community support is what helped get WSU to a higher level. It put WSU in a position to be successful no matter what happened with the coach. It's not based on 1 or 2 people. Community support not only is support in principle but its community $$$$ support.

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

Jesus Christ dude. Just face reality and accept it. Nothing wrong with it.

[BirdsEyeView]

The point is, WSU community support is what helped get WSU to a higher level. It put WSU in a position to be successful no matter what happened with the coach. It's not based on 1 or 2 people. Community support not only is support in principle but its community $$$$ support.

There is so much ignorance and blind thinking to this statement I don't even know how to respond.

Community support is great and all, however, and this might sound crazy...if you have a shitty hire, you won't be any good. Crazy to think like that, I know. I did just use a few examples to the contrary of this statement above...Bill Self being a prime example of an elite coach leaving, but hey I'll give you a pro reference.

The Chicago Bears...huge fan support, lots of NFL money to spend...then hired Marc Trestman after Lovie Smith.

The Bears have been in the crapper ever since. But, with your logic, that community support means you are full proof to always be good. THUMBS UP buddy!

Kochs, etc. were able to increase his salary to a respectable difference from the crazy $4 million offer from Alabama. Without them and whoever other big donors were, you might not have him anymore. Which means you probably aren't as good now and you might not be accepted into the AAC. But, sure, go ahead and assume you fans are the main reason why the program is so great. Not the coach, or the AD, or even the President, or even those darn rich alums helping out. It's that community support that makes you so good. Who gives a crap who the next coach is, GM is replaceable because, again community support and the money you people help with ticket sales, etc. will automatically make you guys good

Finally, you stated above that SASO and ticket sales equivalent to $5 million allows you to have the flexibility to keep people and spend more within the program....YET YET YET, you had to have a team lead by the Kochs to raise funds, even with that money. So that statement meant what then???

[UEACES80]

Jesus Christ dude. Just face reality and accept it. Nothing wrong with it.

:

+1: x100

Historically WSU has drawn well but when you aren't a Top 25 team I doubt the fans are likely to pay an annual PSA or whatever WSU calls it to get extra $ on top of ticket sales.

The success Marshall had brought a huge offer and Daddy Warbucks made sure you didn't lose him.

Every fan of the other teams on here wish they had a Koch, Buffet or Cuban type pitching in when needed. Most of us here might contribute $25 to a $1,000 (likely most on the lower end) a year to our school athletic departments. Takes a lot of donors to even dent what Koch has done for WSU.

Summary - WSU has a strong base of loyal fans / AD made a good (and fortunate) hire of Marshall / Daddy Warbucks made sure he didn't leave

[BirdsEyeView]

Jesus Christ dude. Just face reality and accept it. Nothing wrong with it.

:

+1: x100

Historically WSU has drawn well but when you aren't a Top 25 team I doubt the fans are likely to pay an annual PSA or whatever WSU calls it to get extra $ on top of ticket sales.

The success Marshall had brought a huge offer and Daddy Warbucks made sure you didn't lose him.

Every fan of the other teams on here wish they had a Koch, Buffet or Cuban type pitching in when needed. Most of us here might contribute $25 to a $1,000 (likely most on the lower end) a year to our school athletic departments. Takes a lot of donors to even dent what Koch has done for WSU.

Summary - WSU has a strong base of loyal fans / AD made a good (and fortunate) hire of Marshall / Daddy Warbucks made sure he didn't leave

These fans are brainwashed to think their support makes them invincible as a program.

Hire another Randy Smithson, Scott Thompson or Mike Cohen and see how far that community support gets you in the win/loss column

[Stickboy46]

The point is, WSU community support is what helped get WSU to a higher level. It put WSU in a position to be successful no matter what happened with the coach. It's not based on 1 or 2 people. Community support not only is support in principle but its community $$$$ support.

There is so much ignorance and blind thinking to this statement I don't even know how to respond.

Community support is great and all, however, and this might sound crazy...if you have a shitty hire, you won't be any good. Crazy to think like that, I know. I did just use a few examples to the contrary of this statement above...Bill Self being a prime example of an elite coach leaving, but hey I'll give you a pro reference.

The Chicago Bears...huge fan support, lots of NFL money to spend...then hired Marc Trestman after Lovie Smith.

The Bears have been in the crapper ever since. But, with your logic, that community support means you are full proof to always be good. THUMBS UP buddy!

Kochs, etc. were able to increase his salary to a respectable difference from the crazy $4 million offer from Alabama. Without them and whoever other big donors were, you might not have him anymore. Which means you probably aren't as good now and you might not be accepted into the AAC. But, sure, go ahead and assume you fans are the main reason why the program is so great. Not the coach, or the AD, or even the President, or even those darn rich alums helping out. It's that community support that makes you so good

Finally, you stated above that SASO and ticket sales equivalent to $5 millions allows you to have the flexibility to keep people and spend more with in the program....YET YET YET, you had to have a team lead by the Kochs to raise funds, even with that money. So that statement meant what then???

We absolutely might not have been as good, we might not have gotten into the AAC. OR we might have .. Turgeon took us to a Sweet 16 and bolted. Guess we should have falled off the map then. Would we have gotten Turgeon if we didn't have support at that time? Why did Marshall even want to come here? He had gotten some decent offer. It was because of the support, and potential of WSU in what was, at the time, a better conference).

I believe the lowest yearly average attendance for WSU in the last 20+ years (including those years when we were really really horrible) is still higher than 2nd highest average attendance of any school in the MVC this year.

You keep bringing up the Alabama offer. That was a crazy, insane offer. Keep in mind that all this support was enough to get Marshall to turn down an increase of over a million. The offer was rumored between 4.4-4.8 million and he stayed for an average of 3.3 million. So it's not all about money, the support helped. But yes, the high donors are why we can pay a top 8 or 9 salary in the country. They are not the reason that were were in the 10% of D1 coaches salary before the Alabama offer.

I'll continue to go off of facts. The fact that the program was built BEFORE the Alabama counter offer. WSU's athletic budget is ~25 million (8 million or so for MBB). Even if big donor meeting kicked in 1 million to bump that up that salary, that's only 4% of the total budget or 12% of the MBB budget. That means 88/96% comes from the other support. A 7 million dollar budget for MBB is still 2-4x what the other teams in the MVC are fielding.

[Stickboy46]

Jesus Christ dude. Just face reality and accept it. Nothing wrong with it.

:

+1: x100

Historically WSU has drawn well but when you aren't a Top 25 team I doubt the fans are likely to pay an annual PSA or whatever WSU calls it to get extra $ on top of ticket sales.

The success Marshall had brought a huge offer and Daddy Warbucks made sure you didn't lose him.

Every fan of the other teams on here wish they had a Koch, Buffet or Cuban type pitching in when needed. Most of us here might contribute $25 to a $1,000 (likely most on the lower end) a year to our school athletic departments. Takes a lot of donors to even dent what Koch has done for WSU.

Summary - WSU has a strong base of loyal fans / AD made a good (and fortunate) hire of Marshall / Daddy Warbucks made sure he didn't leave

Minus the name calling in there. That's a good summary. The problem is people are forgetting the first half of that. The Support allowed good hires to be made, the high level donors allowed the program to remain high level without a step back.

And no one says WSU is invincible. It's also not a for sure thing that if Marshall left we would make a bad hire. What IS a for sure thing because it's proven over WSU's history, is that the support will remain there through multiple bad hires to put the program in a position to make a good hire and it's not all about 1 or 2 people.

[BirdsEyeView]

The point is, WSU community support is what helped get WSU to a higher level. It put WSU in a position to be successful no matter what happened with the coach. It's not based on 1 or 2 people. Community support not only is support in principle but its community $$$$ support.

There is so much ignorance and blind thinking to this statement I don't even know how to respond.

Community support is great and all, however, and this might sound crazy...if you have a shitty hire, you won't be any good. Crazy to think like that, I know. I did just use a few examples to the contrary of this statement above...Bill Self being a prime example of an elite coach leaving, but hey I'll give you a pro reference.

The Chicago Bears...huge fan support, lots of NFL money to spend...then hired Marc Trestman after Lovie Smith.

The Bears have been in the crapper ever since. But, with your logic, that community support means you are full proof to always be good. THUMBS UP buddy!

Kochs, etc. were able to increase his salary to a respectable difference from the crazy $4 million offer from Alabama. Without them and whoever other big donors were, you might not have him anymore. Which means you probably aren't as good now and you might not be accepted into the AAC. But, sure, go ahead and assume you fans are the main reason why the program is so great. Not the coach, or the AD, or even the President, or even those darn rich alums helping out. It's that community support that makes you so good

Finally, you stated above that SASO and ticket sales equivalent to $5 millions allows you to have the flexibility to keep people and spend more with in the program....YET YET YET, you had to have a team lead by the Kochs to raise funds, even with that money. So that statement meant what then???

We absolutely might not have been as good, we might not have gotten into the AAC. OR we might have .. Turgeon took us to a Sweet 16 and bolted. Guess we should have falled off the map then. Would we have gotten Turgeon if we didn't have support at that time? Why did Marshall even want to come here? He had gotten some decent offer. It was because of the support, and potential of WSU in what was, at the time, a better conference).

I believe the lowest yearly average attendance for WSU in the last 20+ years (including those years when we were really really horrible) is still higher than 2nd highest average attendance of any school in the MVC this year.

You keep bringing up the Alabama offer. That was a crazy, insane offer. Keep in mind that all this support was enough to get Marshall to turn down an increase of over a million. The offer was rumored between 4.4-4.8 million and he stayed for an average of 3.3 million. So it's not all about money, the support helped. But yes, the high donors are why we can pay a top 8 or 9 salary in the country. They are not the reason that were were in the 10% of D1 coaches salary before the Alabama offer.

I'll continue to go off of facts. The fact that the program was built BEFORE the Alabama counter offer. WSU's athletic budget is ~25 million (8 million or so for MBB). Even if big donor meeting kicked in 1 million to bump that up that salary, that's only 4% of the total budget or 12% of the MBB budget. That means 88/96% comes from the other support. A 7 million dollar budget for MBB is still 2-4x what the other teams in the MVC are fielding.

There is no saving you.

Turgeon = great hire (had NOTHING TO DO WITH FAN SUPPORT, but your AD's ability to find good coaching)

What does fan support have to do with someone finding a great up and coming coach.

Marshall came from the low major school, Winthrop. That level is where many MVC coaches come from (either that or an assistant at a P5 school)
Turgeon came from Jacksonville State...again low major school

Wichita is an upgrade over both of those schools. Explain the corollary of fan support to why they came to your program.

WHAT DOES YOUR BUDGET HAVE TO DO WITH HIRING A GREAT COACH FROM THE LOW MAJORS?????

These are upgraded jobs from Jacksonville State and Winthrop. That's so simple. You keep going back to the same stuff despite me providing examples.

University of Illinois sold out their stadium and have lots of money in their athletic basketball budget. Bill Self leaves and they have not had a good coach since (Weber was only good with Self's players).

Do you not comprehend things or are you simply choosing what to read and making your own conclusions?

This is the most delusional thinking I have ever read and I now am getting dumber by reading your crap.

[BirdsEyeView]

Jesus Christ dude. Just face reality and accept it. Nothing wrong with it.

:

+1: x100

Historically WSU has drawn well but when you aren't a Top 25 team I doubt the fans are likely to pay an annual PSA or whatever WSU calls it to get extra $ on top of ticket sales.

The success Marshall had brought a huge offer and Daddy Warbucks made sure you didn't lose him.

Every fan of the other teams on here wish they had a Koch, Buffet or Cuban type pitching in when needed. Most of us here might contribute $25 to a $1,000 (likely most on the lower end) a year to our school athletic departments. Takes a lot of donors to even dent what Koch has done for WSU.

Summary - WSU has a strong base of loyal fans / AD made a good (and fortunate) hire of Marshall / Daddy Warbucks made sure he didn't leave

Minus the name calling in there. That's a good summary. The problem is people are forgetting the first half of that. The Support allowed good hires to be made, the high level donors allowed the program to remain high level without a step back.

And no one says WSU is invincible. It's also not a for sure thing that if Marshall left we would make a bad hire. What IS a for sure thing because it's proven over WSU's history, is that the support will remain there through multiple bad hires to put the program in a position to make a good hire and it's not all about 1 or 2 people.

How does fan support correlate to a great hire, especially those coming from the Trans American Conference (yes that is where you got Turgeon from)???

You are insane. These are upgraded jobs that have zero to do with fan support.

Fan support does not mean your AD is competent. You just hired a competent AD with a great eye for hiring a college basketball coach from the lower levels.

[Stickboy46]

Ok, I give up. You can continue to wonder why your programs can't keep up when you have horrible fan support. Got it.

Let's just wait until we make a great hire to support again, at that point it's too late.