Next Mid-Major Power?

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Re: Next Mid-Major Power?

Postby Stickboy46 » May 23rd, 2017, 11:48 am

uniftw wrote:Declined?

Rofl.

1 year removed from back to back NCAA second round appearances, top 10 ranking, etc... and declined to the point of not mentioning as anything other than a relic.


Pack it in Jake. Time to end the program.

One losing season in 17 years. Just take us out back and put a bullet in us.


1 really good year. NCAA or not, 2016 was NOT a good year for UNI. Lucky bounces in the MVC tourney paved the way to getting in. It wasn't the quality of their season.

UNI is a once every 4 year or so At-Large team ... not really a powerhouse.
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Re: Next Mid-Major Power?

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Re: Next Mid-Major Power?

Postby BirdsEyeView » May 23rd, 2017, 11:53 am

uniftw wrote:
Redhawk wrote:I didn't realize the writer was an ISU grad so yes there is obvious bias.

As far as UNI's "decline" their conference records the last two years have been
11-7 and 9-9 in a weaker MVC. Will they be better this year with virtually the
same roster minus Morgan? That's where experience and great coaching could be the
determining factor. Would I say UNI is poised to be next Mid-Major power.
Not with the current roster.

With ISUr...Muller has stated that this could be his best recruiting class ever and he still
has one or two spots to fill. He has also had a better conference finish in each of his 5 seasons
so his coaching acumen and program are trending up. It's not outlandish to say that he is building
a strong program at ISUr!

Take the damn shaded glasses off.

Illinois State loses literally 75% of their production from last year. I've done the math. Posted it here. Muller is turning his entire roster over every 2 years or so. There's no continuity there. I'm not making that number up. It's like 70-75% of your stats from last year are gone, across the board.

Brag about "WE HAVE FRESHMAN AND TRANSFERS AND BLAH BLAH BLAH". When was the last time a team, leaning on freshman/transfers dominated the MVC? Want a clue for how well it goes - outside of Baker and Van Vleet - who were guided by upper classmen? UNI, just last season.

True freshman starting at point guard
Redshirt freshman starting at shooting guard
True freshman seeing significant minutes at the wing and 2 spot
Redshirt freshman seeing a bulk of the minutes at the 4/5 the second half of the season after he came back from knee surgery.
CC transfer seeing majority of reserve minutes at PG

It doesn't end well.

Oh, and a big reason for last seasons issues? Wyatt Lohaus went out injured. No, he's not a major stat guy but he brings something beyond that to the team. Kid is a winner. What do I mean by that? He is 140-21 in games he's played in since his freshman year of high school. That's only an 87% winning percentage. 13 of those losses were in one year. You take out 15-16, he's 117-8 for 93.6%. UNI missed him a lot last year. You'll see a massive difference in the team this year with him back.

Muller can't keep his talent.
He can't keep his talent out of the police blotter.
His APR scores indicate he can't really keep his players on pace to graduate either. It's why Teddy didn't have a choice for another year (not that he would have used it). The only condition was he needed to be on pace to graduate in 5 years. He wasn't. His APRs are trending down every single year. The most recent was 945. Down from 955, from 956 from 973 The rate he's going he's going to see scholarship losses or a post season ban within the next 2 or 3 years.

Nice cut off to take out the 16-2 conference record by UNI. Sly. Or the fact that Illinois State is 3 years removed from 9-9 and sub .500 conference records.


You talk about UNI's record against a "weaker" MVC and then brag about Illinois State's record. Maybe that's because of a weaker MVC.

It's brought up every single time but name me the last time UNI had a star. I mean a true star. Maybe Wes. Tuttle, sure. When was the last time you looked at the UNI roster and went "Yup, that team is going win a lot."? Never.

Jake/UNI have been hearing the same exact detractions for 15 years now.

Here's the difference. Illinois State has produced flashy players. UNI has produced a program known for winning.

It's not outlandish to say Jake has already built a strong program at UNI!


Long story short here...

The league needs both UNI and ISUr to be good every year. This is an uncertain year for both.

UNI lost their statistical leader in every category, Jeremy Morgan from a 14-16 team. Even adding Lohaus back who is going to score points and be the next Jeremy Morgan for you.

ISUr is replacing it's core roster, only returning contributors Fayne, Evans and N'Diaye. Lots of uncertainty there with new players. Hype is one thing, production is another. TBD.

Next mid-major power appears to be St. Mary's or someone from the A10 (Dayton, Rhode Island, etc)
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Re: Next Mid-Major Power?

Postby Stickboy46 » May 23rd, 2017, 11:56 am

uniftw wrote:
Here's the difference. Illinois State has produced flashy players. UNI has produced a program known for winning.

It's not outlandish to say Jake has already built a strong program at UNI!


They have? known to who outside of Iowa?
Jakes Record
06-07 - No postseason
07-08 - No Postseason
08-09 - NCAA auto bid (borderline at large)
09-10 - NCAA auto bid (At-Large Quality)
10-11 - CIT
11-12 - NIT
12-13 - CIT
13-14 - No Posteason
14-15 - NCAA Auto Bid (At Large Quality)
15-16 - NCAA Auto Bid (Not At Large quality)
16-17 No post season

So 11 seasons, 2-3 At Large quality teams. So ~20-30% they were nationally relevant. That's not powerhouse quality.

(obviously ISUr has zero on that list, so yes, you should be above ISUr but neither really have shown to be worthy of the list)
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Re: Next Mid-Major Power?

Postby Jsnhbe1Birds » May 23rd, 2017, 12:01 pm

I would already lost Dayton and VCU as powerhouses. St. Mary's and Grand Canyon are next up.
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Re: Next Mid-Major Power?

Postby Horn28Clem30 » May 23rd, 2017, 12:04 pm

Stickboy46 wrote:
uniftw wrote:
Here's the difference. Illinois State has produced flashy players. UNI has produced a program known for winning.

It's not outlandish to say Jake has already built a strong program at UNI!


They have? known to who outside of Iowa?
Jakes Record
06-07 - No postseason
07-08 - No Postseason
08-09 - NCAA auto bid (borderline at large)
09-10 - NCAA auto bid (At-Large Quality)
10-11 - CIT
11-12 - NIT
12-13 - CIT
13-14 - No Posteason
14-15 - NCAA Auto Bid (At Large Quality)
15-16 - NCAA Auto Bid (Not At Large quality)
16-17 No post season

So 11 seasons, 2-3 At Large quality teams. So ~20-30% they were nationally relevant. That's not powerhouse quality.

(obviously ISUr has zero on that list, so yes, you should be above ISUr but neither really have shown to be worthy of the list)


Don't come at UNI fans w/ stats...they don't appreciate those!
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Re: Next Mid-Major Power?

Postby Redhawk » May 23rd, 2017, 12:22 pm

uniftw wrote:Here's the difference. Illinois State has produced flashy players. UNI has produced a program known for winning.

It's not outlandish to say Jake has already built a strong program at UNI!


Jake has built UNI into a strong program. ISUr has outperformed that program the last two years!
This year will be a wild card but Muller has proven to be able to churn the roster and keep on improving the program.
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Re: Next Mid-Major Power?

Postby uniftw » May 23rd, 2017, 12:29 pm

Redhawk wrote:
uniftw wrote:Here's the difference. Illinois State has produced flashy players. UNI has produced a program known for winning.

It's not outlandish to say Jake has already built a strong program at UNI!


Jake has built UNI into a strong program. ISUr has outperformed that program the last two years!
This year will be a wild card but Muller has proven to be able to churn the roster and keep on improving the program.

Outperformed the last two years?

Last year? Sure
The year before Illinois State had one more MVC win, 5 less total wins, 1 and done in Arch Madness and no post season.
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Re: Next Mid-Major Power?

Postby Jsnhbe1Birds » May 23rd, 2017, 1:01 pm

uniftw wrote:
Redhawk wrote:
uniftw wrote:Here's the difference. Illinois State has produced flashy players. UNI has produced a program known for winning.

It's not outlandish to say Jake has already built a strong program at UNI!


Jake has built UNI into a strong program. ISUr has outperformed that program the last two years!
This year will be a wild card but Muller has proven to be able to churn the roster and keep on improving the program.

Outperformed the last two years?

Last year? Sure
The year before Illinois State had one more MVC win, 5 less total wins, 1 and done in Arch Madness and no post season.


About ISUr and postseason. They usually don't play on postseason unless they go at least NIT. Players even voted against playing in lesser tournaments one year
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Re: Next Mid-Major Power?

Postby ohnewby » May 23rd, 2017, 1:05 pm

Stickboy46 wrote:
uniftw wrote:
Here's the difference. Illinois State has produced flashy players. UNI has produced a program known for winning.

It's not outlandish to say Jake has already built a strong program at UNI!


They have? known to who outside of Iowa?
Jakes Record
06-07 - No postseason
07-08 - No Postseason
08-09 - NCAA auto bid (borderline at large)
09-10 - NCAA auto bid (At-Large Quality)
10-11 - CIT
11-12 - NIT
12-13 - CIT
13-14 - No Posteason
14-15 - NCAA Auto Bid (At Large Quality)
15-16 - NCAA Auto Bid (Not At Large quality)
16-17 No post season

So 11 seasons, 2-3 At Large quality teams. So ~20-30% they were nationally relevant. That's not powerhouse quality.

(obviously ISUr has zero on that list, so yes, you should be above ISUr but neither really have shown to be worthy of the list)


Seven schools in the vaunted AAC have done worse.
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Re: Next Mid-Major Power?

Postby Stickboy46 » May 23rd, 2017, 1:15 pm

ohnewby wrote:
Stickboy46 wrote:
uniftw wrote:
Here's the difference. Illinois State has produced flashy players. UNI has produced a program known for winning.

It's not outlandish to say Jake has already built a strong program at UNI!


They have? known to who outside of Iowa?
Jakes Record
06-07 - No postseason
07-08 - No Postseason
08-09 - NCAA auto bid (borderline at large)
09-10 - NCAA auto bid (At-Large Quality)
10-11 - CIT
11-12 - NIT
12-13 - CIT
13-14 - No Posteason
14-15 - NCAA Auto Bid (At Large Quality)
15-16 - NCAA Auto Bid (Not At Large quality)
16-17 No post season

So 11 seasons, 2-3 At Large quality teams. So ~20-30% they were nationally relevant. That's not powerhouse quality.

(obviously ISUr has zero on that list, so yes, you should be above ISUr but neither really have shown to be worthy of the list)


Seven schools in the vaunted AAC have done worse.


Ok .. So 5 have done better than the "best" in the MVC .. got it.

Not really relevant to the UNI/ISUr discussion of who will be the next mid-major power.
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