Transfer Rules within MVC

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Re: Transfer Rules within MVC

Postby uniftw » June 6th, 2017, 12:38 pm

Redhawk wrote:
uniftw wrote:However, him not getting a 4th year to play at Illinois State is 10000000000000% related to academics. Part of the stipulation for him to get a 4th year to play was to be on track to graduate (with a certain GPA, don't remember what it was) on time. Turns out he wasn't able to graduate on time - and I'm not sure he met the GPA requirment.


Hawkins is on track to graduate after this summer session. The reason he isn't getting another year
at ISUr is the same as DJ Clayton's.

The stipulation is he had to be on pace to graduate in 4 years, spring semester. He wasn't going to get any extra time from the NCAA. That's how it is will all non-qualifiers.
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Re: Transfer Rules within MVC

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Re: Transfer Rules within MVC

Postby Redhawk » June 6th, 2017, 12:49 pm

uniftw wrote:
Redhawk wrote:
uniftw wrote:However, him not getting a 4th year to play at Illinois State is 10000000000000% related to academics. Part of the stipulation for him to get a 4th year to play was to be on track to graduate (with a certain GPA, don't remember what it was) on time. Turns out he wasn't able to graduate on time - and I'm not sure he met the GPA requirment.


Hawkins is on track to graduate after this summer session. The reason he isn't getting another year
at ISUr is the same as DJ Clayton's.

The stipulation is he had to be on pace to graduate in 4 years, spring semester. He wasn't going to get any extra time from the NCAA. That's how it is will all non-qualifiers.


UNIFTW...I trust your knowledge of NCAA rules but Boston College seems to think he can play another year:

From the Boston Herald:

Illinois State grad transfer Deontae Hawkins committed to Boston College on Monday, according to multiple reports. The 6-foot-8, 220-pound stretch forward will be immediately eligible for the Eagles, and has one season of eligibility remaining.
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Re: Transfer Rules within MVC

Postby uniftw » June 6th, 2017, 2:54 pm

Redhawk wrote:
UNIFTW...I trust your knowledge of NCAA rules but Boston College seems to think he can play another year:

From the Boston Herald:

Illinois State grad transfer Deontae Hawkins committed to Boston College on Monday, according to multiple reports. The 6-foot-8, 220-pound stretch forward will be immediately eligible for the Eagles, and has one season of eligibility remaining.

Sweet jesus, this isn't hard to understand.

He can't play another year at Illinois State. He was a non-qualifier out of prep school (which is unbelievable to be honest). Because of that he had to sit out a year. That doesn't get to count as a redshirt year, so to speak. It's a dead year but he can't redshirt and get an extra year on top of that dead year. It can become a "redshirt" if certain criteria are met - GPA and graduation date

Due to the dead year he could still play 4 years at Illinois State IF...and only if...he kept his GPA at a certain level and graduated within 8 semesters, including his dead year (summer not included...call it 11 semesters if you want to include summers).

His GPA was not kept to the standard required by the NCAA. They may have granted a special waiver to get a 4th playing year at Illinois State if he was going to graduate in 8 semesters. He very clearly did not graduate in 8 semesters

That means his time at Illinois State is done. He got 4 seasons and that's it.

HOWEVER, that isn't to say he couldn't gradate in 9 (12) and then enroll elsewhere using the graduate waiver - like he is apparently doing.

He spent 4 years at Illinois State, played 3. He gets 5 years to play 4, thus he can play under the graduate student rule. It essentially turns into the dead year being a redshirt year, even though it technically wasn't a redshirt year.

That isn't to say he is actually qualified as a grad student. That isn't to say Boston College isn't completely stretching their entrance requirements to get him in - not that they are alone in that redard by any means. I would guess he wouldn't get into any reputable grad program if he was applying as a general student, given his criminal and academic history the last 4-5 years, regardless of field of study.


So not only did he squirm around the conference transfer rules that should have cost him his first year playing at ISUr on top of the year he had to sit out (because he created a murky grey area that no one quite agreed fully on, which is what created this whole can be play/can he not/he can but only not against WSU/he can against everyone because that was a strange ruling). He gets around the being a non-qualifier and gets the year he shouldn't on the back end of his career due to another school giving their academia the middle finger for someone who wouldn't be accepted without athletics pushing it through and won't graduate and won't go to classes.

Good to see he's learning his lesson for being a crap student who can't stay out of legal trouble and turning into an upstanding young man. :roll:
Last edited by uniftw on June 6th, 2017, 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Transfer Rules within MVC

Postby Cdizzle » June 6th, 2017, 3:08 pm

uniftw wrote:
Redhawk wrote:
UNIFTW...I trust your knowledge of NCAA rules but Boston College seems to think he can play another year:

From the Boston Herald:

Illinois State grad transfer Deontae Hawkins committed to Boston College on Monday, according to multiple reports. The 6-foot-8, 220-pound stretch forward will be immediately eligible for the Eagles, and has one season of eligibility remaining.

Sweet jesus, this isn't hard to understand.

He can't play another year at Illinois State. He was a non-qualifier out of prep school (which is unbelievable to be honest). Because of that he had to sit out a year. That doesn't get to count as a redshirt year, so to speak. It's a dead year but he can't redshirt and get an extra year on top of that dead year.

Due to the dead year he could still play 4 years at Illinois State IF...and only if...he kept his GPA at a certain level and graduated within 8 semesters, including his dead year (summer not included...call it 11 semesters if you want to include summers).

His GPA was not kept to the standard required by the NCAA. They may have granted a special waiver to get a 4th playing year at Illinois State if he was going to graduate in 8 semesters. He very clearly did not graduate in 8 semesters

That means his time at Illinois State is done. He got 4 seasons and that's it.

HOWEVER, that isn't to say he couldn't gradate in 9 (12) and then enroll elsewhere using the graduate waiver - like he is apparently doing.

He spent 4 years at Illinois State, played 3. He gets 5 years to play 4, thus he can play under the graduate student rule.

That isn't to say he is actually qualified as a grad student. That isn't to say Boston College isn't completely stretching their entrance requirements to get him in - not that they are alone in that. I would guess he wouldn't get into any reputable grad program if he was applying as a general student. Given his criminal and academic history the last 4-5 years


So not only did he squirm around the conference transfer rules that should have cost him his first year playing at ISUr on top of the year he had to sit out, he gets around the being a non-qualifier and gets the year he shouldn't on the back end of his career.

Good to see he's learning his lesson for being a crap student who can't stay out of legal trouble and turning into an upstanding young man. :roll:

It actually was a little difficult to understand, as the non-qualifier thing created an interesting wrinkle with regard to him being potentially eligible at any school except ISUr. I don't remember seeing that before (perhaps because I've never seen such a case lead to someone actually gaining admittance to graduate school). But you did an excellent job of summarizing it in this post.
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Re: Transfer Rules within MVC

Postby Make MVC Great Again » June 7th, 2017, 7:50 am

Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.

I would bet my house on any team in this league's coach having to jump through hoops to get a kid eligible or two. No one is running a true "clean" program. Sorry if that offends any of you.

As far as Hawkins goes, he is doing what is best for him. He owes fans little if not anything. Answer me this, if any of your sons had a chance to play against Coach K, Pitino, Roy Williams, would any of you hold them back?

While I think it is a bad look for ISU and the Valley as a whole, something needs to be done to stop making mid-majors JUCOs for Power-five teams.
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Re: Transfer Rules within MVC

Postby uniftw » June 7th, 2017, 8:17 am

Make MVC Great Again wrote:Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.

I would bet my house on any team in this league's coach having to jump through hoops to get a kid eligible or two. No one is running a true "clean" program. Sorry if that offends any of you.

As far as Hawkins goes, he is doing what is best for him. He owes fans little if not anything. Answer me this, if any of your sons had a chance to play against Coach K, Pitino, Roy Williams, would any of you hold them back?

While I think it is a bad look for ISU and the Valley as a whole, something needs to be done to stop making mid-majors JUCOs for Power-five teams.

Who's throwing stones - other than repeatedly pointing out that Illinois State mens' basketball and football "punishes" their athletes lighter than most preschools punish kids for budging in line at lunch time.

Would anyone hold them back? Not if it was the right fit. One of UNI's coaches has a kid that is awful close to being able to play for one of those coaches, he won't be held back. To be fair, Hawkins isn't going to play for one of them. He is going to play for Jim Christian, at Boston College. Jim is 29-67 (6-48 in AAC play) in his three years at BC. The last two years they are 16-48 overall and 2-34 in conference play. Nope, that isn't a typo. They've gone 0-18 and 2-16 the last two years in conference play.
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Re: Transfer Rules within MVC

Postby mule » June 7th, 2017, 9:15 am

uniftw wrote:

That isn't to say he is actually qualified as a grad student. That isn't to say Boston College isn't completely stretching their entrance requirements to get him in - not that they are alone in that redard by any means. I would guess he wouldn't get into any reputable grad program if he was applying as a general student, given his criminal and academic history the last 4-5 years, regardless of field of study.


So not only did he squirm around the conference transfer rules that should have cost him his first year playing at ISUr on top of the year he had to sit out (because he created a murky grey area that no one quite agreed fully on, which is what created this whole can be play/can he not/he can but only not against WSU/he can against everyone because that was a strange ruling). He gets around the being a non-qualifier and gets the year he shouldn't on the back end of his career due to another school giving their academia the middle finger for someone who wouldn't be accepted without athletics pushing it through and won't graduate and won't go to classes.


From the NCAA:
"The graduate transfer waiver is now typically used by athletes who have previous transferred once before and so cannot use the one-time transfer exception (even as a graduate student).
A letter from the previous school saying it does not object to the student-athlete being eligible;

Documentation that the student-athlete has been accepted into a specific graduate degree program;

Documentation about whether that degree program is offered by the previous school;
A student-athlete statement including the reasons for the transfer
[/b]; and

A statement from the previous institution about the student-athlete’s status on the team.

Generally the heart of the waiver is the three middle bullets. The NCAA wants to see that the student-athlete transferred in order to continue his or her academic career by pursuing a graduate degree not offered at the previous school."

I assume that the NCAA reviews these transfers. One can only think Hawkins would be rejected for one of the above reasons in bold.
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Re: Transfer Rules within MVC

Postby uniftw » June 7th, 2017, 9:35 am

Right, which all backs exactly what I said.

He's, to his credit, continuing to find loopholes that will allow him to get around the restrictions placed in front of him due to his academic issues.

All that is required is that the new school offers a program Illinois State doesn't, that he is admitted, and tells the NCAA "I really respect that program and believe it will help me after my playing days are over". That's it.

Then it's up to how far whatever school involved wants to go to bend the admission standards for that kid.
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Re: Transfer Rules within MVC

Postby MissouriValleyUnite » June 7th, 2017, 1:53 pm

3 Questions of Life
1) What is the purpose of life?
2) Why is the sky blue?
3) How did Deontae Hawkins get admitted into graduate school at Boston College?
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Re: Transfer Rules within MVC

Postby mule » July 7th, 2017, 8:32 pm

Redhawk wrote:
Cdizzle wrote:Deontae Hawkins: Proof that Illinois State will give a degree to literally anyone.


And Boston College!

@JonRothstein
Deontae Hawkins tells me he's no longer committed to BC, but Eagles are at top of list. Considering New Mexico, Creighton, WKU, and Pacific.
3:50 PM - 6 Jul 2017
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Re: Transfer Rules within MVC

Postby Red » August 15th, 2017, 2:47 pm

And Hawkins is committed back to BC now. WTF? :huh:
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Re: Transfer Rules within MVC

Postby mule » August 16th, 2017, 3:51 am

Red wrote:And Hawkins is committed back to BC now. WTF? :huh:

@JonRothstein
Ohio State transfer JaQuan Lyle has committed to New Mexico, per a source.
12:06 PM - 4 Aug 2017
With Lyle committed, either the scholarship at New Mexico disappeared or the need for Hawkins did.
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