Great article

Discuss the MVC hoops season here.

Re: Great article

Postby uniftw » June 7th, 2017, 7:44 am

uniguy wrote:Thats a good point. Although you could make the argument that UNIs budget is artificially high due to Jakes salary since it is partially donor funded. If he left a new coach wouldn't get that much.

Jake's is fully funded through private donors, AFAIK. To some extent that's a valid point. However, unlike tuition it is basketball specific funding. It is funding that our athletic department has mad a point to get and put towards the program. It's not UNI's fault no one else left in this conference can/does do the same. I would also add that the next coach won't see a significant/if any drop from where Jake is now. Gone are the 300-500K base pay days at UNI. Here to stay are the 750-850k base pay plus media and other bonuses pushing to over a million. The donors are there to make sure that the best replacement coach, whenever that time comes, is found and paid for.

The interesting thing to me is if facility rental should* be taken out of the spending. In the case of Evansville that is another $345,000 for the year that those numbers are from (based on reported numbers for what it costs to rent the Ford Center from posts on this board). This year it is a minimum of $285,000, and that will go up if they host a CBI/CIT game. I would argue that is artificially inflating budget numbers for those schools as well to some extent. Yes, it's basketball specific spending. It's basketball specific funding only because UE isn't/wasn't willing to fund their own building that they owned and control. On top of paying ~300K per year just to be able to play home games, UE is losing out on any revenue from events that could be brought in. UNI's basketball arena and football stadium bring in millions of dollars a year to the university. We also don't know how UNI splits McLeod Center operations costs between mens basketball, womens basketball, volleyball and general athletic department expenses. Without rental fees (and I don't know what the other schools pay per year/game) UE falls to about 1.9m in basketball specific funding. Which still confuses me with where that money is going - especially if the rumored salary for Marty is actually where the rumor puts it. UE may have the single worst ROI in the conference. Bradley is probably worse given their last 8 years, or so. However, they still have a S16 banner, multiple other NCAA trips, NITs, etc... to their name. UE has 1 NCAA trip, no NCAA wins, and no other real post season success - don't give me this CIT champion crap either.

Add $345,000 to UNI's budget and they have the largest in the conference, when including the tuition difference between Bradley and UNI.

Raw budget numbers are neat to talk about, but getting down to what is truely basketball spending is what makes it fun/worth while to talk about. Yes, there are apple/oranges in some cases for numbers - facility rental being one.
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Re: Great article

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Re: Great article

Postby Make MVC Great Again » June 7th, 2017, 7:52 am

Adams need to start a website or something.

Reading something like that on Facebook makes it seem amateur.
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Re: Great article

Postby uniftw » June 7th, 2017, 8:13 am

mule wrote:
uniguy wrote:Thats a good point. Although you could make the argument that UNIs budget is artificially high due to Jakes salary since it is partially donor funded. If he left a new coach wouldn't get that much.

Wouldn't being funded by donors actually make the budget lower than if the school paid the whole amount?
:huh:

That's one thing that I've never been able to find 100% confirmation on. I've heard people tell me both - with actual "facts" to back up their side...both making sense.

If you look at the DOE numbers I think Jake's is included in it. Looking at what the DOE reports for full time male sports head coaches at UNI...even this gets goofy

Average Annual Institutional Salary per Coach - $266,754
Number of coaches Included - 5
Average Annual Institutional Salary per FTE - $352,849
Number of FTEs Included - 3.78

I don't know how that averages out because in the part right above it UNI only has 3 varsity mens coaches assigned on a full-time basis (Basketball, football, wrestling....golf and TF/XC aren't under this). I don't know where exactly the numbers come from.

The football coach makes $405,000
The wrestling coach makes $122,000
Jake's "base" salary is at $794,000 (bonuses is what gets the 1M)

That average pay for those three is 440k.

Getting "real" AD numbers is also impossible.

I've hear that it does count because the donors "pay" the university and the university still pays Jake, thus it still counts as a basketball expense. However, the other side is that since it is privately funded there is another way to account for it that doesn't include most/all of it going into the actual basketball budget.

I can also say that 2.9m number is 2 or 3 years old (which are the most recent numbers). Jake'ss pay is about 300K higher than it was in 2014. So really, I would bet UNI has over taken Bradley but we won't see that play out in these reports for 2 or 3 years (assuming Jake's salary is in this)
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Re: Great article

Postby uniguy » June 7th, 2017, 10:05 am

That is (good) news to me about Jake's salary. I was always under the impression that the money we got from outside sources to pay his salary was for him only, and if he were to leave a new coach would make significantly less (closer to what Jake's original salary was). I'm happy to hear that isn't the case.
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Re: Great article

Postby uniftw » June 7th, 2017, 10:40 am

uniguy wrote:That is (good) news to me about Jake's salary. I was always under the impression that the money we got from outside sources to pay his salary was for him only, and if he were to leave a new coach would make significantly less (closer to what Jake's original salary was). I'm happy to hear that isn't the case.

Jakes first salary was $175,000. That was in 2006 and UNI was still very heavily a football school. Coming off of a national title game appearance, and the NCAA appearnces under McDermott were setting the foundation for the program but it could have easily slid the other way, REAL QUICK, if Jake hadn't done what he did. The football team was ranked #1 in the country for pretty much all of 2007 and 2008 and entered 2009 #1 but then fell apart.

Meanwhile Jake set the record for most wins in first two seasons as a coach in UNI history in 06/07 and 07/08. while they didn't get to an NCAA they did keep fans engaged enough. Then in 08/09 the next NCAA appearance came on the back of a horrifying end to the 2008 football season that "broke" many football fans at UNI.

09/10 was the S16 season, and at the start of the season Jake was only at like 300K or so. The 2009 football season was a giant disaster. To follow that up with a second straight NCAA appearance, and have it be a season ranked in the top 25, beat the #1 team in the nation, S16, etc... and the school instaflipped to a basketball school with a football program. Yes, football draws more people and blah blah blah. It's a basketball schoool at this point.

Jake gets whatever he wants for himself, and his assistants. The next coach - hopefully a decade plus down the road, will also get that treatment to continue the path.

Falling back to 500K or less in pay won't happen unless a real failure of an AD comes in.
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Re: Great article

Postby uniguy » June 7th, 2017, 11:47 am

Haha thank you for the history lesson, although you are describing my years at UNI as a student starting in 2005 so I am familiar with it already. ;)

Obviously a new coach would not make 175K like Jake did in 2006, but I would have guessed closer to 400-500K. For one, Jake has earned his salary through his accomplishments. A new, unproven coach would not deserve the same salary. I think we agree on that. This would be the case at pretty much any institution. If Gregg left Wichita tomorrow, his replacement probably wouldn't get a 3 million dollar plus paycheck right off the bat (unless it was someone with the pedigree that deserves it).

Regardless, I think, the real question is how exactly is Jake's salary funded? Is it some sort of endowment that UNI controls, or is it donors ponying up every year in an arrangement specifically put together to retain Jake (or a mixture of both)? If it is donors, then I don't know that we could rely on them to pony up for a new guy without them having a pretty good say as to who it is. If it is an endowment towards a coaches salary (not specifically Jake's) then yes, UNI basketball will be able to go to that well for as long as it wants.

At least that has been my understanding.
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Re: Great article

Postby BCPanther » June 7th, 2017, 8:50 pm

uniguy wrote:Haha thank you for the history lesson, although you are describing my years at UNI as a student starting in 2005 so I am familiar with it already. ;)

Obviously a new coach would not make 175K like Jake did in 2006, but I would have guessed closer to 400-500K. For one, Jake has earned his salary through his accomplishments. A new, unproven coach would not deserve the same salary. I think we agree on that. This would be the case at pretty much any institution. If Gregg left Wichita tomorrow, his replacement probably wouldn't get a 3 million dollar plus paycheck right off the bat (unless it was someone with the pedigree that deserves it).

Regardless, I think, the real question is how exactly is Jake's salary funded? Is it some sort of endowment that UNI controls, or is it donors ponying up every year in an arrangement specifically put together to retain Jake (or a mixture of both)? If it is donors, then I don't know that we could rely on them to pony up for a new guy without them having a pretty good say as to who it is. If it is an endowment towards a coaches salary (not specifically Jake's) then yes, UNI basketball will be able to go to that well for as long as it wants.

At least that has been my understanding.


From what I understand, there's a group of about 12 big time donors that make annual contributions to a trust that funds all basketball salaries. These donors are contractually obligated to make that contribution for as long as Jake is here but do not get any money back if he bolts. They also have the option to continue after he's gone but are not required to.

Their estates are included as well so that we don't run into a situation where their kids can pull funds. It's already come into play twice but there wouldn't have been any question about those families changing their minds anyway. They bleed the purplest of purple.
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Re: Great article

Postby uniftw » June 8th, 2017, 8:15 am

Great.

Another shade of purple for us to deal with...


Sorry for the extremely inside UNI related joke there.
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Re: Great article

Postby BCPanther » June 8th, 2017, 9:33 am

uniftw wrote:Great.

Another shade of purple for us to deal with...


Sorry for the extremely inside UNI related joke there.


Every UNI fan should lol hard at that...
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